New Knife

RonJ

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I've been collecting pocket knives for about a year now, nothing rare or custom made. I have Gerber, Case, Kershaw, Tree, Eye, Buck, Boker, Browning and several other quality brands. I didn't know much about Queen Cutlery other than they're made in USA and not cheap. I decided to add one of their knives to my collection, so I ordered a Schatt & Morgan Heritage series from them. It has bone scales, nicely finished and well put together.
However, none of the three blades were sharp out of the box. I took a fine stone to it and still dull. I then tried a Smiths pocket sharpener which is usually a whiz at sharpening quickly and very well, but the Queen didn't sharpen at all. I suspect that the blades are carbon steel but they should still take an edge. Very disappointing for an $80.00 knife.
 
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Need to step up from a fine stone to something a little more coarse. Good steel that holds an edge can be tough to sharpen but that's why it holds an edge. Plenty of good sharpening sites on the internet.
 
I only own one Queen & the blade is D2, I had to start w/a coarse stone IOT get the edge I wanted, but now it stays nice & sharp. I agree with you that the factory grind leaves a lot to be desired.

-Klaus
 
I've been collecting pocket knives for about a year now, nothing rare or custom made. I have Gerber, Case, Kershaw, Tree, Eye, Buck, Boker, Browning and several other quality brands. I didn't know much about Queen Cutlery other than they're made in USA and not cheap. I decided to add one of their knives to my collection, so I ordered a Schatt & Morgan Heritage series from them. It has bone scales, nicely finished and well put together.
However, none of the three blades were sharp out of the box. I took a fine stone to it and still dull. I then tried a Smiths pocket sharpener which is usually a whiz at sharpening quickly and very well, but the Queen didn't sharpen at all. I suspect that the blades are carbon steel but they should still take an edge. Very disappointing for an $80.00 knife.
A fine stone should be enough to sharpen an edge that's not damaged or in need of reshaping. Try inking the edge then try the stone again. The ink'll let ya see where it's sharpening.
 
Carbon steel should take an extremely good edge--good old 1095 is my favorite blade steel.

You might want to see if your blades are D2. That can be a bear to sharpen, but once sharp will stay that way a long time. Queen has made many pocketknives, very nice ones, in D2.
 
Carbon steel should take an extremely good edge--good old 1095 is my favorite blade steel.

You might want to see if your blades are D2. That can be a bear to sharpen, but once sharp will stay that way a long time. Queen has made many pocketknives, very nice ones, in D2.

I just emailed their quality control guy. Maybe he can shed some light on this.
 
You may need a diamond or ceramic hone for that tough steel.

But there's no excuse for a knife coming from the factory with a dull edge.

I dislike D-2 steel and don't know how they heat treat it at Queen. It is hard to sharpen and lacks enough chrome to be a true stainless. It is hard to polish really well, too.

If you are getting a good edge on other knives, your technique is probably okay.

Let us know what Queen says. At the least,, they should agree to hone it right, like it should have come in the first place. One reason why I like Victorinox and Fallkniven knives so much is that they come sharp. I also never bought a Puma or a Buck that came dull. Wenger, yes. That's one reason why I prefer Victorinox in Swiss Army knives.
 
As stated above, Queen knives are made of D2 steel which is significantly harder than regular carbon steel. They also come from the factory with a blunt grind. Unless you are using a diamond hone it takes FOREVER to reshape the edge. However, once you get there the edge is spectacular and long lasting.

Ed
 
As stated above, Queen knives are made of D2 steel which is significantly harder than regular carbon steel. They also come from the factory with a blunt grind. Unless you are using a diamond hone it takes FOREVER to reshape the edge. However, once you get there the edge is spectacular and long lasting.

Ed


So they want the customer to do their work for them and they charge a lot for the knives. :mad:

I realize they have their fans, but this doesn't seem to me to be the way to sell American made pocketknives in a world market that is increasingly tight.

However, thanks for the explanation. It seems as if Queen knives might be best for someone who can have them professionally sharpened and who won't need to re-hone often and who has and can use diamond hones.

If one knows a custom maker or has a good knife store nearby where the sharpening staff aren't naïve teens, it might be best to get the basic blade bevels and the first hone done that way. But most customers will not have access to such facilities.

I got a custom maker to redo the bevels and hone my Gerber Applegate-Fairbairn Combat Folder and it's now a nice knife.
I'm probably going to send the mid-sized Covert model back to Gerber and ask them to do a better job. Both knives are about ten years old. I hope present production comes sharp!

My son and I both had good luck with Benchmade lockblades. His has a tanto blade and I don't know the model. Mine is a Model 710, designed by McHenry & Williams.

But these are bigger than normal pocketknives.

Frankly, if I wanted a stockman's knife or a Trapper pattern, I'd look at shows for the Puma or Carl Schlieper/Eye Brands. These are German, from the famed cutlery city of Solingen. Boker knives from there also have a good rep.

The former US-made Schrade Uncle Henry knives are also very good, if not finished very highly on the blades. (Satin polish.) Some stores still have some or shows will. And Case makes good pocketknives.

Be aware that current Schrade and Camillus knives are made in the Orient and are NOT from the famous companies whose names they bear. Those names are now the property of companies that bought them after the "real" US firms closed. I don't know anyone who's used these Chinese knives, so can't comment on them. My experience of Chinese goods in general hasn't been terribly positive. But there may be exceptions.
 
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Texas Star. Your assessment about sums it up, I'm afraid. I've read the following speculation concerning Queen policy but have no idea if is correct: D2 steel is very hard but somewhat more brittle than carbon steel. It gets real sharp, the edge lasts a long time but is prone to chipping if it gets hit with a hard side force. (Think glass in the extreme.). One way to protect such an edge is to make it blunt. That appears to be Queen's strategy (sadly).

Ed
 
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TS, the new "Schrade Old Timers" I've looked at didn't impress me at all. The original, U.S.-made Old Timers were excellent, and I treasure the few I have left. Not fancy, but splendid working knives with good steel that took and held a very good edge. The original Uncle Henry line was quite decent too, though I always preferred the carbon steel OT line.

The original Camillus firm made pocketknives for a lot of companies, including Buck, Cold Steel and Moore Maker. Quality was excellent. I'm saddened to hear that the Chinese are using that fine old brand name, and I'm guessing the new products are of lesser quality.
 
It wouldn't bother me a bit, Ron. I've never gotten a knife from any maker that I didn't sharpen-and I've gotten knives from a lot of different makers.

For that matter I've never gotten a woodworking chisel (I have a bunch), plane iron (a good many), ax, shovel, or most any other tool and not sharpened it to suit me. About the only exception is a new chainsaw blade and carbide saw blades and shaper and router tooling. I also sharpen every fishhook before it goes in the water.

As far as a new knife, I've seen VERY few with an edge I couldn't improve. I expect the factory to make a quality knife--I don't expect them to tune the edge the way I like it.
 
I received an email today from Queen. They are having trouble identifying my knife so I sent a link to my knife on Amazon. Amazingly the knives are made of different steel according to the composition of the scales! They use diamond stones to hone their blades.
 
Here's the email I received.

Good morning my name is Pat Vroman from here at Queen Cutlery and I need to know a couple of things from you here about your situation. First of all I'm not familiar with such a pattern number that we produce here at Queen, this must be somebody else's stock number or something. Our Schatt & Morgan line are 420HC Stainless Keystone Line, unless it's Schatt & Morgan File & Wire Jigged Bone Handles and then they will be ATS-34 Stainless and the India Sambar Torched Stag in File & Wire they will be D2 Tool Steel so I guess it's going to come down to what you have before I can help any further. I can how ever tell you that we use a diamond impregnated stone to hone all of our blades here at Queen. Another well honing stone is White Aluminum Oxide and the grit of this would be the 80K and you can usually find these in most supply houses such as MSC Industrial, Etc.. Please contact me with further information to best help you out.
Thank You
Pat Vroman
 
Well, Ron, that's a bit of an odd email. But it's not something that I would find unusual in today's world or spend any time at all worrying about. People in my estimation get more odd all the time.

If you are buying the knife to collect, why worry about whether or not it's super sharp from the factory? What is the fit and finish like? Do the blades center when closed? Are the scales what they should be?

As I indicated in my last post, the last thing I look at is the sharpening grind--that is almost always rough and I've made my own edge with every cutting tool I've ever had. And that's on WORKING tools, the only kind I have.

Some manufacturers actually assume that their customers can sharpen a tool to their purpose and liking. Of course that might be too much to ask of people these days...it's an apostasy of sorts; we expect everything to be done for us. But I damned sure don't.

If you are buying it to use, sharpen the thing, throw it in your pocket and use it.

But if it's a collector knife, maintain it the way it is and don't worry about if it will push thru a piece of paper...enjoy it for the quality of manufacture. Collectors want a pristine knife. Dull or not, they want a factory edge. The Queen knife you have, well honed and treated fairly, will outlast both of us and generations in the future, if you choose to use it.

By the way Ron, you know I like you...you old fart.
 
Cooter, that should read "old and stale fart"! :)

Oh, Right back at ya!
 
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I just ordered a diamond stone, medium/fine and we will see what happens.
Cooter and whoever else is interested, I guess I'm not an ordinary collector. All of my knives that aren't very sharp get a quick touch up until they are. Most don't need it. Whether or not they have the factory edge is not important to me. I don't think any of my knives are going to be especially valuable in the next 50 years or so.
I'm the guy lots of you love to hate. If I had a 85% model 16 I'd probably have it refinished.
 
I have two Arkansas oilstone sets, several different diamond hones, and several Japanese water stones (up to 12,000 grit-yep, twelve THOUSAND)

On really dull (like a butter knife) or hard to sharpen blades, I use diamond. I have a 4 sided diamond hone from Harbor Freight that goes from 200 to 600 grit.
I follow it with a fine Smith's diamond, 750, I think.

Buck and Case can be a bear to sharpen on a medium Arkansas when they are dull, as can most stainless alloys.
I use diamond on them and move up to oilstones, if needed.

I've heard of D2 as taking a horrible edge and keeping it forever.
I like D2, but prefer 10 series carbon steels.
 
D-2 is a great steel but hard to sharpen if you are going to use the knife and need to re sharpen it do yourself a favor and get a lanskey sharpening system.
 
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