New Laws in New Jersey Today
- Thread starter bushmaster1313
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Yep, but unfortunately Congress didn't contemplate magazine capacity.
There are two things a state may restrict a LEOSA carrier from. Magazine capacity ain't one of them . . .
18 U.S. Code S 926B - Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute
Edit: Although I will admit that other states have enacted restrictions, which have yet to be litigated to their conclusion . . .
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OP
It is possible you are mistaken
NJ Statutes are notoriously difficult to search. The Bill in question, A2761, may have been signed into law, but as of June 12, 2018 I could not find the changes in the online statutes from the NJ State Legislature. Nevertheless, I think a very recent version of the magazine bill is Here: A2761 According to what I could find so far, the 180 grace period that was added to N.J.S. 2C:39-3 reads as follows:
My personal take, AND THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE: Under "5.a" above, and assuming this is part of the final bill signed into law, it looks like there is a 180 day grace period to transfer a legally owned 11-15 round magazine to anyone who is legally allowed to possess it. A reasonable reading would be that this includes transferring it to a person in a state that allows that person to have 11-15 round magazines. But remember -- the official policy in NJ is that anyone who does anything related to firearms in NJ does so at their own risk of violating the law.
Be careful out there
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Magazine capacity has not been addressed by LEOSA. Therefore you have to abide by the laws of whatever state/locale you're in. There has been some talk of addressing the mag issue, but so far nothing has been done.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has ruled that State and local laws and regulations applying to magazines do apply and the exemption provided by LEOSA applies only to firearms and ammunition.
The original law did not mention ammunition, thus creating enough concern from the LE community due to officers being arrested in states with hollow point ammunition bans. This concern resulted in an amendment to LEOSA that Obama signed in 2010, which included, in part, re-classifying ammunition not forbidden under federal law. However, there still is no mention of hi-cap mags listed in LEOSA, therefore it's been interpreted that LEOs are subject to prosecution if importing or possession of hi-cap mags into states that have those types of bans. If you have any info that clarifies this issue, I'd love to see it.
FWIW here's what I have from the Hon. Steve Manion, U.S. Magistrate Judge for the District of New Jersey, who still does the Sheepdog Academy on a part-time basis. This is from his '13 LEOSA seminar:
LEOSA does not expressly address magazine capacity for carry, however, state magazine bans that preclude range qualification are arguably preempted.
For e.g., State or agency X requires active LEOs to use a 15 rd mag to qualify. The same State bans mags above 7 rds. That ban unlawfully precludes RLEOs from qualifying under LEOSA.
"States" with 10 round magazine limits: D.C., California, Hawaii and Massachusetts. LEOSA does not preempt these magazine restrictions when carrying. See D.C. Official Code § 7- 2506.01; Cal. Penal Code § 12020(a)(2), (b); Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-8(c); and Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 140, § 121). Note that various cities around the nation also ban magazines above ten rounds.
States with 15 round magazine limits: New Jersey. N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1y.
N.Y. Penal Law § 265.00(23) was amended in 2013. "Section 38 of the bill amends Penal Law 265.00(23) to ban all large capacity magazines that have the capacity to hold more than ten rounds of ammunition including those that were grandfathered in under the original assault weapons ban and creates a new ban on magazines that hold more than seven rounds of ammunition. Magazines that can hold more than seven rounds but not more than ten rounds and are currently possessed will be grandfathered in, but may only contain seven rounds of ammunition.
Exceptions are made for large capacity magazines that are curios or relics."
So, if you have a pre-ban 10-round mag you can carry 7 rounds in it. The law does not prohibit topping off with one round in the chamber.
If carrying in CA, D.C., HI, or MA carry no more than 10 round magazine(s). If in NY, carry a 7 round mag or pre-ban 10 round mag with 7 rounds in the mag.
If carrying in New Jersey carry up to 15 round magazine(s).
Although dated, some of the LEOSA cases are discussed here:
hr218leosa.com
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ispcapt is the forum member expert on this as far as I'm concerned, and I am paraphrasing/relying on memory regarding his previous comments. If I/you have time, a search on past LEOSA threads may prove fruitful . . .
Edit: I had a couple minutes, so I did a quick search. According to some comments ispcapt made on a thread about New York state a year or so ago, LEOSA does not exempt mag limits. I carry a revolver out of state, so I never stop to think about it. By way of history, ispcapt was apparently on the statewide LEO committee that drafted IL's LEOSA compliance laws . . .
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You guys can argue about it all you want and even come to an conclusion that its ok to carry a high cap magazine under LEOSO. But, when you are in such a state if stopped and charged your arguments or decision doesn't mean squat. Bail, an attorney and some time hashing it out in a state court and then possibly a higher court will all be on you. Lots of people have been found to be with in the law for various actions after being charged, jailed sentenced. Still doesn't mean it was in anyway enjoyable, convenient or cheap.
Jf you insist your right and go to one of these states I wish you all the best.
Jf you insist your right and go to one of these states I wish you all the best.
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Totally agree with this. As I've mentioned earlier either here or on another post, in some states, LEOSA is merely an affirmative defense, which means you get to raise it at trial. Also, you're only as far away from a night in jail as the arresting officer thinks you are . . .
Mr. Manion stated in his LEOSA class that retired LEO's must abide by the states Magazine capacity restrictions. I asked that question specifically. To do otherwise would mean any number of things including being a test case.
LEOSA
Totally agree and that's why I switch out my carry ammo to FMJ or round nose lead. I don't want an expensive and embarrassing hassle @ the hands of an uninformed cop.
Totally agree and that's why I switch out my carry ammo to FMJ or round nose lead. I don't want an expensive and embarrassing hassle @ the hands of an uninformed cop.
Arizona Ghost
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So...anyone in NJ want to sell some 16-round mags for an SW9VE? 
So...anyone in NJ want to sell some 16-round mags for an SW9VE?
I'm pretty sure they already had a 15 rd max limit already. Don't know if any of the makers have made those "special" though. Joe
OP
All we can do......
All we can do is fight, fight, fight and then fight some more.
All we can do is fight, fight, fight and then fight some more.
That's why we need to fight outside.....
That's why we need to fight from inside, now. If an individual is on the defensive in a war like this, there's nothing to be done and gun owners will be fined, jailed, considered to be felons, denied our rights for life.
That's why we need to fight from inside, now. If an individual is on the defensive in a war like this, there's nothing to be done and gun owners will be fined, jailed, considered to be felons, denied our rights for life.
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@ Bushmaster,
The seminar was conducted by Evan Nappen, the US Law Shield attorney for NJ. The comments on the magazine ban and what we can do were his words. He said we can retain these magazines at the moment and we can permanently restrict the capacity, but we can't use them or transport them.
He was asked specifically about the magazines and LEOs, he stated only on duty officers under orders could carry high capacity magazines. Off-duty officers were obligated under the new law to comply with the 10 round limit.
I respect the knowledge and wisdom within this forum, but when it comes to understanding and working within the screwy laws of NJ, I have to need the advice of the program attorney! The last thing I want is to be a test case!
The seminar was conducted by Evan Nappen, the US Law Shield attorney for NJ. The comments on the magazine ban and what we can do were his words. He said we can retain these magazines at the moment and we can permanently restrict the capacity, but we can't use them or transport them.
He was asked specifically about the magazines and LEOs, he stated only on duty officers under orders could carry high capacity magazines. Off-duty officers were obligated under the new law to comply with the 10 round limit.
I respect the knowledge and wisdom within this forum, but when it comes to understanding and working within the screwy laws of NJ, I have to need the advice of the program attorney! The last thing I want is to be a test case!
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OP
Nappen literally wrote the book on NJ gun law
But when you said he said you cannot "transport," was he referring to what off-duty or out of state officers were or were not allowed to do under the new law or was he referring to what regular people cannot do during the 180 day grace period.
I would agree to not transport while relying on LEOSA, or even on FOPA, but did Nappen really say that a citizen cannot sell and send a formerly legal 11-15 round magazine to an out of state purchaser during the 180 day grace period?
In any event, all persons living in or travelling through New Jersey need to be very careful to obey the New Jersey gun laws even if the laws are dumber than bricks. Violate the New Jersey gun laws and the violator is in for a world of hurt.
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I try not to pile on in situations such as this, I did live in NY, rated the worst state for gun owners by many pro gun organizations year after year.I certainly know the pain.
Having moved to a often called "free state"( I don't like the term because no state is truly free), I find it a whole different mindset, at least for now.
Always be on your toes though, take nothing for granted, the anti's take no breather.
You know what happens - word gets put, more refugees from your old state hear about the great new place you moved into, they come there and next thing you know, they are trying to make it just like the place they came from!
According to my retired LEO buddies who choose to remain in NJ, they are allowed to use Expanding Full Metal Jacket or EFMJ rounds, such as Federal Guard Dog rounds.
Try google, they have a few videos of demos.
If in doubt, call the NJSP Firearms Section for a knowledgeable answer.
Hashed and rehashed.
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