New Model 3 Frontier

[shown50]

I’m looking for some info on a NM3 Frontier in 44-40 with a 6” barrel. This is my first NM3 so please bear with me. I purchased this on Gunbroker as a 44 Russian NM3 with a recent factory letter(10/24).
I was a little thrown off when I got it and realized it has a 1 9/16th cylinder, single tooth extractor cam, and a low serial number(1854) which would make it a Frontier model from all the older post I’ve read online. I don’t have any 44-40 handy to try in it but I do have a 44 Russian Double Action and a 44-40 Double Action and the NM3 chambers a 44 Russian round loosely like my New Frontier DA does. I’ve requested a letter on it as a Frontier model.
My question is on the Japanese contract shipped guns, were they lower serial numbers(ie 1-780ish)? It would only make sense to me to convert guns that hadn’t been punched out for 44-40 yet. I originally thought mine could be a converted model but after chambering a 44 Russian I don’t see how that could be possible. Thanks for any help! Was this gun a forum members before? I don’t have a copy of the letter yet(just a screenshot from the AD) but I think the name was blacked out before it was sold.

 

[glowe]

My initial opinions are supported by the serial number and the long cylinder. The facts are following. There was no long cylinder before 1885 and the low serial number could only be a 44-40 gun. That low serial number in a 44 Russian would put the production date within the first couple years of 1878 or 1879 and all were short cylinder at that time.

The letter is quite mystifying, since there should not be any long cylinder guns in 1881???? I assume that Roy wrote the letter? If so, his book descriptions mean that this could not be a 44 Russian?? I can only assume that the author of that letter looked up a 44 Russian since maybe he did not have knowledge of the long cylinder.

 

[shown50]

My initial opinions are supported by the serial number and the long cylinder. The facts are following. There was no long cylinder before 1885 and the low serial number could only be a 44-40 gun. That low serial number in a 44 Russian would put the production date within the first couple years of 1878 or 1879 and all were short cylinder at that time.

The letter is quite mystifying, since there should not be any long cylinder guns in 1881???? I assume that Roy wrote the letter? If so, his book descriptions mean that this could not be a 44 Russian?? I can only assume that the author of that letter looked up a 44 Russian since maybe he did not have knowledge of the long cylinder.

The letter is from October 2024 so I think Don wrote it. I’m almost positive the letter was written for a 1 7/16th cylinder 44 Russian since that’s the most common NM3 I’ve found. I can’t fault Don as he looked up the right gun with the information given to him. The chambers has some light pitting at the end so seeing the 2 lines from the bottle neck 44-40 are tough but can be seen with a flashlight and the naked eye, my camera can’t pick it up easily or I’d post a picture.

 

[glowe]

I agree. There were over 35,000 NM3s made in various calibers that fit a short cylinder and only just over 2000 44 Winchesters made, so over ten times more likely that any gun request for this model would be a 44 Russian.

Let me add a couple dimensions if you have a way to measure. The 44 Winchester had a dimension of .471" just above the rim and the 44 Russian had a .457" dimension. The length of 44 Winchester brass is 1.305" while the length of a 44 Russian brass is only .970. With a 1 9/16 cylinder, the distance to the first line inside the chamber from the face should measure .257" for a 44 Winchester and .592" for a 44 Russian. That is over 1/4" difference and should be easily determined by inspection after looking through a few chambers.

 

[iby]

nm3

It is interesting that the letter says 6" barrel which is not real common
And... Nickel finish

 

[shown50]

I agree. There were over 35,000 NM3s made in various calibers that fit a short cylinder and only just over 2000 44 Winchesters made, so over ten times more likely that any gun request for this model would be a 44 Russian.

Let me add a couple dimensions if you have a way to measure. The 44 Winchester had a dimension of .471" just above the rim and the 44 Russian had a .457" dimension. The length of 44 Winchester brass is 1.305" while the length of a 44 Russian brass is only .970. With a 1 9/16 cylinder, the distance to the first line inside the chamber from the face should measure .257" for a 44 Winchester and .592" for a 44 Russian. That is over 1/4" difference and should be easily determined by inspection after looking through a few chambers.

I’ll try and get some measurements today when I get home from work. Thanks for the help!

 

[shown50]

It is interesting that the letter says 6" barrel which is not real common
And... Nickel finish

Agreed, I’ve double and triple checked the cylinder length to make sure it’s not a 1 7/16th. I thought it was strange that the 44 Russian NM3 with serial number 1854 has the same specs as this gun(what I believe is a 44-40 serial 1854).

 

[shown50]

Got some measurements of the cylinder. Take these with a grain of salt, I am using a $35 dollar digital caliper and the ends of the of the chambers are pitted.
It appears to be a 44-40 the cylinder measures 1 9/16th. The extractor to chamber wall is .4715 - .472 and a rough measurement of the chamber from the face to the first ring is .2605. I’m going to attach some pictures from the cylinder face to show how rough they are. I’m assuming it was left holstered and loaded for a long time.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Matt
Mail me the letter, I'll replace it.
Don

 

[shown50]

Matt
Mail me the letter, I'll replace it.
Don

Thanks Don! The company I bought it from forgot to include the letter with the gun. They shipped it late last week so I’m still waiting on it to arrive. I ordered a letter this morning as a Frontier model but I’ll still send you the old letter back. Thanks for the help.

 

[Boulder350]

It has the short ejector housing too, another indicator it's the frontier model. Saw this one too on the action site. I was an early bidder since it's the scarce frontier model. Nice snag

 

[glowe]

Didn't the shorter housing start when the company increased the size of the cylinder and window? I think the long cylinder started showing up on 44 Russian models around 15,000 serial number sometime after 1886. Of course, the 44 Frontier started that same year and it is believed that when 44 Russian short frames were used up they went to the long cylinder for the remainder of the 44 Russian New Model 3. The 44 Double Action Frontier also started production in 1886.

 

[shown50]

It has the short ejector housing too, another indicator it's the frontier model. Saw this one too on the action site. I was an early bidder since it's the scarce frontier model. Nice snag

Thanks! Oh really? I try not to bid against fellow members, sorry about that. I was surprised there weren’t more bids on it. I set an autobid of $850 figuring there’s no way I’d win it. I chalked it up to the ad description and title being wrong.
I was just telling Mr. Maher the other day that I’ve had a really hard time finding a #3 of any variation in the $1200-1800 range.
I have bid on the last three 32-44 targets that have sold but they’ve all went $1300-1600 without fees and shipping. It seemed like that was a little high for the condition but all of them had multiple final bidders so maybe not.

 

[Boulder350]

I stopped bidding at $350. I looked up the old auction and you bought it for a great price, especially since its a Frontier model. I looked up the serial number and it was not converted to the 44 Russian and sent to Japan. Wonder where yours went to in the states. I have one that was shipped to Chicago in 1887. I paid a lot more for mine in about the same condition.

I have some info on the New Model 3 serial numbers in my records. Serial number 13,381 has the long housing and serial number 14,715 has the short housing. You see long ejector occasionally above that serial number. Serial numbers 34,196; 34,352; and 34,474 have the longer ejector housing and the 1 7/16" cylinder. Serial numbers 29,713 and 29,731 have the same features.

 

[shown50]

Thanks for the replies! I missed those as I forgot to check this thread again. The letter arrived today. I believe the E.C. Meachum Arms Company was a large hardware store in St Louis that closed in 1900 from what I’ve gathered reading about Colts that shipped there. I’m assuming by the letter that this was a single gun shipment. I was hoping with all the initials carved in the stocks that it would’ve shipped to an individual. Thanks for all the help!