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I think your 9c is one of a run they did with the full size mag for the TALO group of distributors.
New model M&Ps now arriving in stores
- Thread starter Tommato
- Start date
I think your 9c is one of a run they did with the full size mag for the TALO group of distributors.
CrossRifles2008
Member
I believe they quoted $159 give or take a buck. That includes the sights and labor.
UrbanRogue
Member
Might as well get Trueglo put on them instead,
but then again I like fiber optics.
but then again I like fiber optics.
In my M&P pistol armorer recert/update they told us the new "trigger" updates were already going into the current regular production 9/.40/.357 guns. The .45 is still some time out, because they're apparently still doing development & testing of the different trigger bar for the .45. It will probably arrive in the .45's next year (and probably later than sooner).
The "trigger upgrade" (my term, not theirs) supposedly involves the PC sear, a revised trigger bar and a revised slide stop assembly. The trigger pull weights will intentionally be kept at the same weights (because they're duty/defensive models, not sporting/competition models).
The trigger bars will have a change to the vertical extension (safety plunger engagement).
The slide stop assemblies will be standardized with the heavier yellow spring, and incorporate an angle change in the right side (inside) rear corner. The change in the rear corner is designed to add more inward (leftward) tension against the outside of the trigger bar, giving it a bit more snap under the resetting sear nose (more positive/tactile "reset"). A very neat and simple engineering change to an existing assembly, requiring no extra parts to achieve their goal.
There may be some further tweaks and refinements which weren't mentioned, as this was only briefly discussed.
It's up in the air whether S&W will eventually put together some sort of "kit" so armorers (gunsmiths?) can retrofit the newer parts into older M&P's. If so, I'd suspect the first available "new" spare parts would probably go to existing LE agency customers to retrofit existing duty guns (if they even desire to do so). As it is, they're apparently using parts as fast as they're made & received to try and keep up with heavy production demands.
I have no idea (and nobody was interested enough to ask) what, if anything, is being done to the models being built for competitive shooters (Pro-Series). I'd imagine they're going to be receiving the new slide stop assemblies, since it's a newer revision. Dunno, though.
The M&P pistol line is receiving a lot of attention, and a lot of engineering attention. I rather doubt they're going to be sitting still (engineering & design-wise) and resting on their success to date.
I certainly wouldn't be surprised to learn there's more going on, and more coming on down the road, than what they're sharing with armorers on any given day.
BTW, the Shield armorer class wasn't ready (completed and/or approved, yet) when I did my recert for the regular M&P's, so I don't have any details on any specific differences between the Shield and the regular M&P's.
The "trigger upgrade" (my term, not theirs) supposedly involves the PC sear, a revised trigger bar and a revised slide stop assembly. The trigger pull weights will intentionally be kept at the same weights (because they're duty/defensive models, not sporting/competition models).
The trigger bars will have a change to the vertical extension (safety plunger engagement).
The slide stop assemblies will be standardized with the heavier yellow spring, and incorporate an angle change in the right side (inside) rear corner. The change in the rear corner is designed to add more inward (leftward) tension against the outside of the trigger bar, giving it a bit more snap under the resetting sear nose (more positive/tactile "reset"). A very neat and simple engineering change to an existing assembly, requiring no extra parts to achieve their goal.
There may be some further tweaks and refinements which weren't mentioned, as this was only briefly discussed.
It's up in the air whether S&W will eventually put together some sort of "kit" so armorers (gunsmiths?) can retrofit the newer parts into older M&P's. If so, I'd suspect the first available "new" spare parts would probably go to existing LE agency customers to retrofit existing duty guns (if they even desire to do so). As it is, they're apparently using parts as fast as they're made & received to try and keep up with heavy production demands.
I have no idea (and nobody was interested enough to ask) what, if anything, is being done to the models being built for competitive shooters (Pro-Series). I'd imagine they're going to be receiving the new slide stop assemblies, since it's a newer revision. Dunno, though.
The M&P pistol line is receiving a lot of attention, and a lot of engineering attention. I rather doubt they're going to be sitting still (engineering & design-wise) and resting on their success to date.
I certainly wouldn't be surprised to learn there's more going on, and more coming on down the road, than what they're sharing with armorers on any given day.
BTW, the Shield armorer class wasn't ready (completed and/or approved, yet) when I did my recert for the regular M&P's, so I don't have any details on any specific differences between the Shield and the regular M&P's.
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I just got off the phone with S&W cust. service on another issue. While I had the guy on the line, I asked if they were now putting Shield triggers in any of the other M&P guns. He said they are NOT putting a different trigger in the latest gun runs and he is unaware of any plans to do so. The Shield trigger is not going in the rest of the line.
I read with interest the trigger issues you folks are discussing.
I have. 45C and wife a 9C and I find no problems with either gun. Is it because I'm left handed or because I shoot a lot of revolvers or am I just not the sensitive Guy my wife leads me to believe?
I have. 45C and wife a 9C and I find no problems with either gun. Is it because I'm left handed or because I shoot a lot of revolvers or am I just not the sensitive Guy my wife leads me to believe?
I'm OK with my 9 FS trigger too, and I'm not left handed nor do I shoot revolvers. I guess I'm another insensitive guy
.It's not an improved "trigger" (assembly). It's a combination of parts & assemblies, some of which are being revised and receiving subtle changes.
You also have to keep in mind that on any given day there may be 15-30+ different people who work customer service phones/desks, and their experience ranges from "very" to "not so much". Some may have previously worked production, or elsewhere in the company over a 30 year career. Some might be new.
Not everything that's being done in engineering, production or repair might be passed along to the guys & gals working customer service phones.
I've had them end up transferring my calls to engineering or repair so I could get more specific & current info about something (as an armorer).
Other times they've put me on hold and called over to Production to look into something, and have been surprised with the answer they got for me, as it was "new" to them.
Other times I've had to ask the armorer training (academy) or a LE rep to look into something, to try and resolve some conflicting info I'd received.
It's a big company, and not all ongoing changes, revisions, new parts, etc are necessarily being disseminated (at least in a timely manner) to all corners of the company.
The subtle changes in the existing trigger bars for the different models aren't resulting in "new triggers". Not like when the new strikers were the result of significant materials & design changes.
The slide stop assembly change is the neat one, as it increases the tension of the slide stop spring (to help control lever movement, or "flutter", during recoil), and also helps to give more 'push' to the tail of the trigger bar under the resetting sear nose. I've tried the new slide stop assembly in an earlier M&P, and it does provide just a bit more noticeable 'snap' during trigger/sear reset.
That's nice, I suppose (as some customers have been asking for it). However, I don't shoot to "trigger reset", myself, but to trigger recovery, and I'm not one of those owners/shooters who want to duplicate the connector slap of another make of plastic pistol in everything else I own, shoot & use.
I haven't exactly been trying to keep up with all the subtle changes and nuances of the ongoing improvements to the M&P line. Not unless it involves the need to start replacing parts in working guns, or having to be able to distinguish between earlier & newer parts & assemblies when servicing guns (like the change in the sear plungers & springs, and the sear blocks in which they fit).
I was told last year that S&W's engineers were busy experimenting with different off-the-shelf M&P components to try and address some customer feedback issues, and maybe making some minor changes to existing parts as an improvement in design might be determined. (The MA complaint sear block, with it's heavier plunger & spring, became a "standard" assembly in this way, BTW.)
Although we were told in my last class that the PC sear would be part of the subtle improvement in the newer guns, but NOT with a lightening of the trigger pull weight, the PC sears are still not available as spare parts. Getting one as an armorer is still a bit of a difficult trick, as they're carefully monitored inside the company (I don't have any, but I haven't really tried, either ).
I don't have a list of the interchangeable parts & assemblies for the Shield versus the rest of the M&P pistol line yet. I'll wait until they have approval for their Shield armorer class material. (And until I have the time to take one apart, and not just spend an afternoon running one through drills on the range.)
In the meantime, I've found the newer M&P's to offer pretty decent "triggers". Some more than others (but there's been an allowable +/- 2lbs in the triggers of the stock guns since their introduction). The Shield 9 I used had a pretty decent trigger, but so did the last couple of M&P 9's I tried (compact & VTAC).
You also have to keep in mind that on any given day there may be 15-30+ different people who work customer service phones/desks, and their experience ranges from "very" to "not so much".
Some may have previously worked production, or elsewhere in the company over a 30 year career. Some might be new.Not everything that's being done in engineering, production or repair might be passed along to the guys & gals working customer service phones.
I've had them end up transferring my calls to engineering or repair so I could get more specific & current info about something (as an armorer).
Other times they've put me on hold and called over to Production to look into something, and have been surprised with the answer they got for me, as it was "new" to them.
Other times I've had to ask the armorer training (academy) or a LE rep to look into something, to try and resolve some conflicting info I'd received.
It's a big company, and not all ongoing changes, revisions, new parts, etc are necessarily being disseminated (at least in a timely manner) to all corners of the company.
The subtle changes in the existing trigger bars for the different models aren't resulting in "new triggers". Not like when the new strikers were the result of significant materials & design changes.
The slide stop assembly change is the neat one, as it increases the tension of the slide stop spring (to help control lever movement, or "flutter", during recoil), and also helps to give more 'push' to the tail of the trigger bar under the resetting sear nose. I've tried the new slide stop assembly in an earlier M&P, and it does provide just a bit more noticeable 'snap' during trigger/sear reset.
That's nice, I suppose (as some customers have been asking for it). However, I don't shoot to "trigger reset", myself, but to trigger recovery, and I'm not one of those owners/shooters who want to duplicate the connector slap of another make of plastic pistol in everything else I own, shoot & use.
I haven't exactly been trying to keep up with all the subtle changes and nuances of the ongoing improvements to the M&P line. Not unless it involves the need to start replacing parts in working guns, or having to be able to distinguish between earlier & newer parts & assemblies when servicing guns (like the change in the sear plungers & springs, and the sear blocks in which they fit).
I was told last year that S&W's engineers were busy experimenting with different off-the-shelf M&P components to try and address some customer feedback issues, and maybe making some minor changes to existing parts as an improvement in design might be determined. (The MA complaint sear block, with it's heavier plunger & spring, became a "standard" assembly in this way, BTW.)
Although we were told in my last class that the PC sear would be part of the subtle improvement in the newer guns, but NOT with a lightening of the trigger pull weight, the PC sears are still not available as spare parts. Getting one as an armorer is still a bit of a difficult trick, as they're carefully monitored inside the company (I don't have any, but I haven't really tried, either
).I don't have a list of the interchangeable parts & assemblies for the Shield versus the rest of the M&P pistol line yet. I'll wait until they have approval for their Shield armorer class material. (And until I have the time to take one apart, and not just spend an afternoon running one through drills on the range.)
In the meantime, I've found the newer M&P's to offer pretty decent "triggers". Some more than others (but there's been an allowable +/- 2lbs in the triggers of the stock guns since their introduction). The Shield 9 I used had a pretty decent trigger, but so did the last couple of M&P 9's I tried (compact & VTAC).
highaltitude
Member
It's not an improved "trigger" (assembly). It's a combination of parts & assemblies, some of which are being revised and receiving subtle changes.
You also have to keep in mind that on any given day there may be 15-30+ different people who work customer service phones/desks, and their experience ranges from "very" to "not so much".
Not everything that's being done in engineering, production or repair might be passed along to the guys & gals working customer service phones.
I've had them end up transferring my calls to engineering or repair so I could get more specific & current info about something (as an armorer).
Other times they've put me on hold and called over to Production to look into something, and have been surprised with the answer they got for me, as it was "new" to them.
Other times I've had to ask the armorer training (academy) or a LE rep to look into something, to try and resolve some conflicting info I'd received.
It's a big company, and not all ongoing changes, revisions, new parts, etc are necessarily being disseminated (at least in a timely manner) to all corners of the company.
The subtle changes in the existing trigger bars for the different models aren't resulting in "new triggers". Not like when the new strikers were the result of significant materials & design changes.
The slide stop assembly change is the neat one, as it increases the tension of the slide stop spring (to help control lever movement, or "flutter", during recoil), and also helps to give more 'push' to the tail of the trigger bar under the resetting sear nose. I've tried the new slide stop assembly in an earlier M&P, and it does provide just a bit more noticeable 'snap' during trigger/sear reset.
That's nice, I suppose (as some customers have been asking for it). However, I don't shoot to "trigger reset", myself, but to trigger recovery, and I'm not one of those owners/shooters who want to duplicate the connector slap of another make of plastic pistol in everything else I own, shoot & use.
I haven't exactly been trying to keep up with all the subtle changes and nuances of the ongoing improvements to the M&P line. Not unless it involves the need to start replacing parts in working guns, or having to be able to distinguish between earlier & newer parts & assemblies when servicing guns (like the change in the sear plungers & springs, and the sear blocks in which they fit).
I was told last year that S&W's engineers were busy experimenting with different off-the-shelf M&P components to try and address some customer feedback issues, and maybe making some minor changes to existing parts as an improvement in design might be determined. (The MA complaint sear block, with it's heavier plunger & spring, became a "standard" assembly in this way, BTW.)
Although we were told in my last class that the PC sear would be part of the subtle improvement in the newer guns, but NOT with a lightening of the trigger pull weight, the PC sears are still not available as spare parts. Getting one as an armorer is still a bit of a difficult trick, as they're carefully monitored inside the company (I don't have any, but I haven't really tried, either
I don't have a list of the interchangeable parts & assemblies for the Shield versus the rest of the M&P pistol line yet. I'll wait until they have approval for their Shield armorer class material. (And until I have the time to take one apart, and not just spend an afternoon running one through drills on the range.)
In the meantime, I've found the newer M&P's to offer pretty decent "triggers". Some more than others (but there's been an allowable +/- 2lbs in the triggers of the stock guns since their introduction). The Shield 9 I used had a pretty decent trigger, but so did the last couple of M&P 9's I tried (compact & VTAC).
So if one walks into an LGS, looking to buy an M&P 9c, what specifically would tell you it's one of the newer guns ? Serial no ? Fire date ?
UrbanRogue
Member
I'm pretty sure something that big happening
to their gun lines that they would inform
ALL customer service reps.
Via e-mail, prompts on their computers etc. etc.
I have no problem with my m&p trigger
I just bought last week. Im left handed as well.
to their gun lines that they would inform
ALL customer service reps.
Via e-mail, prompts on their computers etc. etc.
I have no problem with my m&p trigger
I just bought last week. Im left handed as well.
You're kidding, right?
The CS reps field ALL the calls for all of S&W's assorted products, processes, depts, etc.
A small revision/change being introduced to just one of the MANY firearms products they market, even if it's their 'flagship' duty pistol, isn't exactly a hold-the-presses moment for the everyday operations of the rest of the huge business.
I doubt many of them could even tell you how many hundreds of LE agency customers they've acquired, or how many foreign countries have been buying M&P firearms (pistols & rifles) ... which was something like 16 countries, last time I even tried to look it up (over a year ago).
I wouldn't be at all surprised to find there are CS reps who haven't even handled, let alone fired, any of the M&P pistol line. (I know at least one longtime CS rep who competes with one, though, and even he doesn't claim to be as up-to-date on all ongoing changes to the M&P line.
)As far as knowing whether any particular pistol has the latest revisions? Dunno. Last time I asked someone, they couldn't give me any production date, serial number or test-fire dates where any specific models might have started receiving the revised parts (or any revised parts, like the strikers, new sear housing blocks, slide stop assemblies, etc).
Production might have that info, and I've experienced how certain changes were sometimes tied to serial numbers in some of the 3rd gen models (like slide mass changes in the 411's, because it required the use of a different extractor spring, or a "-" revision to slides & barrels in some models, so the CS reps saw it was flagged in their computers when looking up a parts number for that model line and knew to ask).
Thee might even be folks in CS who haven't been told that S&W is now forging their own uppers & lowers for the M&P 15's ... or that they offer 2 different barrel steels for the M&P's (since both are favored by different types of customers/buyers) ... or offer 3 different rate twists, depending on application ... or were doing some limited custom runs of M&P 15's that contained features/specs not offered in any production guns ... or that they make their own bolt carrier for their piston models, but not for the gas impingement models ... and any number of other things.
The M&P pistol extractor received a minor refinement about a year ago, too. I only found out about it in passing while looking into something else one day, while talking to someone at the company. I think it happened about the same time period in which some LASD M&P 9's had been found to have received some extractors that had been 'over-molded' (spec issue). I was told the extractor received a minor revision to make the hook's point a bit sharper, and give it some additional negative rake. More in the way of a subtle tweak the engineers decided was a good change (and remember how much MIM molds cost, and also consider that S&W owns the MIM molds used by the MIM houses to make their parts).
Sometimes the things we may think are really noticeable changes and improvements may just be one or more in an ongoing series of changes, refinements & revisions the company does across their model lines.
Did you know they were still making changes in the design and manufacturing of 3rd gen TSW slides & barrels even after they discontinued them from commercial sales, and had limited them to new orders from existing LE agency customers? I only discovered a couple of them (between armorer classes) when I saw a difference in some brand new 4566TSW barrels, and the inside machining of a 4513TSW slide (disassembled, in the firing pin channel). I called and asked about it, and was forwarded to someone who was familiar with the minor changes (and the reasons), and could tell me I had seen a deliberate change, and not a manufacturing mistake or defect.
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Kudos to Fastbolt
I'd like to take a second to thank Fastbolt for sharing the knowledge he has about the inner workings of the pistols that S&W makes.
Not kidding Fastbolt- you post some very informative stuff.
~ Alan
I'd like to take a second to thank Fastbolt for sharing the knowledge he has about the inner workings of the pistols that S&W makes.
Not kidding Fastbolt- you post some very informative stuff.
~ Alan
S&W has been upgrading the M&P since last Summer (with the improved sear housing block to fix the dead trigger problems). Within the last 4-6 months they have:
1. Changed the extractor to work better with shallow rimmed 9mm ammo.
2. Went with a new trigger bar (has an H stamped in it).
3. New slide catch that improves trigger bar reset.
4. New sear.
5. New locking block.
C4
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We will be offering all the components, but honestly if you have a sear housing block with the internal lock hole in it, you are better off going with the AT RAM.
C4
CS Dept. are usually the last ones to know anything (FYI). S&W (certified armorers), will know more than just about anyone (as we have our hands in the gun more than most anyone else).
C4
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That made me chuckle.
I've heard more than a couple of CS folks make comments of a similar nature. It's more true than not, though.
I'm glad I'm not the only armorer dropping by at least one of the forums from time to time, too.
Sometimes it's easier to pick up on a new change when it's been seen by another armorer, or one who just happened to get lucky and picked it up during a conversation with a visiting rep, or while on the phone with an engineer or tech. Kind of like how we network and share observations and experiences during the classes, right? After all, even armorer instructors occasionally pick up (and then pass along) neat tips & tricks developed by certified armorers over the years.
You're welcome bluejax01, but just remember that I'm only an armorer, and not a licensed gunsmith, engineer, repair tech ... or anybody's idea of an "expert". I may have been through more than 20 armorer classes over the years, but only 2 of them have been for the M&P pistol, so I'm still learning my way around them.
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That made me chuckle.
It's more true than not, though.
I'm glad I'm not the only armorer dropping by at least one of the forums from time to time, too.
Sometimes it's easier to pick up on a new change when it's been seen by another armorer, or one who just happened to get lucky and picked it up during a conversation with a visiting rep, or while on the phone with an engineer or tech. Kind of like how we network and share observations and experiences during the classes, right? After all, even armorer instructors occasionally pick up (and then pass along) neat tips & tricks developed by certified armorers over the years.
You're welcome bluejax01, but just remember that I'm only an armorer, and not a licensed gunsmith, engineer, repair tech ... or anybody's idea of an "expert". I may have been through more than 20 armorer classes over the years, but only 2 of them have been for the M&P pistol, so I'm still learning my way around them.
Ya for sure good to have a fellow armorer on here to bounce things against and compare notes.
I talk to the S&W LE sales dept. and engineering dept. on a regular basis (weekly usually). Many times I am telling them that there has been a change to a part.
C4
Fastbolt and Grant - many thanks for your insights. Frankly, I find S&W's CS "up to date-ness" to be similar to many other companies I am familiar with.
I bought my FS today, shot it, and brought it home. Reliability was 100%, although ejection with Federal Champion 115g was right back into my face. Federal Hydra-Shok 115g ejected to the right and behind me.
FWIW, my "Shield trigger" FS has a SKU of 309701, and a spent brass date of 9/13/12.
Tommato
I bought my FS today, shot it, and brought it home. Reliability was 100%, although ejection with Federal Champion 115g was right back into my face. Federal Hydra-Shok 115g ejected to the right and behind me.
FWIW, my "Shield trigger" FS has a SKU of 309701, and a spent brass date of 9/13/12.
Tommato
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