New S&W Bullpump Shotgun Just Announced!

It will rate right down there as being as useless as a mare's leg/governor/judge. .........Except for the mall ninjas and SOF wantabee's.

I think the bullpen design is excellent for making the shotgun a good home defense weapon. It's much more maneuverable. Yeah, the 15 shots is overkill, which is why KSG brought out the KS7 with a single mag tube. I probably would have gone that route instead of buying the KSG, but it wasn't a product at that time.
 
I think the bullpen design is excellent for making the shotgun a good home defense weapon. It's much more maneuverable. Yeah, the 15 shots is overkill, which is why KSG brought out the KS7 with a single mag tube. I probably would have gone that route instead of buying the KSG, but it wasn't a product at that time.

For in the house, I use a couple of rounds of #9 shot first, after these are loaded OO or #4 buck. The #9 is so not much penetration of walls. Up close on a bad guy it will do a lot of damage.
 
As to those who think the screw-in choke tubes are an improvement, they're really not. This is a defensive shotgun, not something for the field or going out to shoot trap. With the pick of the right load, the cylinder bore is perfectly fine. I use now-discontinued Federal Tactical Low Recoil #1 Buck Flight Control, and my patterns out to 25 yards are perfect for the use the KSG will get. Those photos are below.

The screw in chokes add to the versatility. You said it yourself, "with the pick of the right load"... well, lately I haven't always been able to find the "right load" readily available on the shelf, so a choke may make that cheap import buckshot that spreads a little too much at 10 yards or more a little more manageable.

I also shoot my defensive shotgun with birdshot when we are just shooting for fun. Maybe the gun isn't made for shooting at some hand thrown clays, but that doesn't mean that I won't use it in that manner anyway!
 
The bullpup shotgun is a big seller with new gun owners wanting an actual inside the home or apartment defense shotgun.
The standard pump shotgun is too long and difficult to maneuver inside the typical dwelling and and is extremely hard to hold with one hand and open doors or fend off an in your face attack.

I owned a Kel-Tec KSG and just didn't like it.
The weight and bulk was hard to work with, and the complex shell stop feed system was wonky and trouble prone.
It seems to me that the double magazine system is more a "thing" for range ninjas who like to show off how fast they can empty the gun.
I personally don't know of a case where a home invader required shooting 10 or 15 times with buckshot.

Unless you're going through Falluga with the Marines or you're at risk of a mass assault by a heavily armed biker gang it's hard to see how that many shells are going to be useful in the typical home defense situation.
There are possible situations where that many shells could be needed, but those are rather rare, and it's tough to justify the added weight, bulk, and complexity over a standard capacity single magazine for a typical home defense situation.
Everyone wants more shells, but they come with the price of a heavier, more complex, and bulky gun that's slower in action.

For these reasons I sold the KSG and bought the far more handy and useful KS7.
Kel-Tec's engineers learned a lot with the KSG and they applied that knowledge in the KS7.
It's a mature, viable, simpler, design that works.

The light weight and short length make moving around inside the home, or even handling inside a vehicle easy, and the KS7 is FAST into action.
The light weight does increase felt recoil but this can be dealt with by ammo selection or better recoil pads.

The loading set up is much better then the KSG or from the looks, the new S&W.
The KS7 has a single magazine tube and guide ribs to position and guide the shells.
With the other double magazine guns you have to carefully align shells with the tube to be loaded and not try to push them into the wrong tube.
The KS7's guides and single magazine insures a shell has no where to go but into the tube with no fumbling or misalignment

The shell release design is far simpler and less troublesome then the complex KSG and probably the new S&W.

The single magazine tube KS7 is very easily accessed for routine cleaning and maintenance, whereas the KSG and probably the S&W require special tooling and heating to get access to the tubes.
This will lead to insufficient maintenance, where the KS7 HAS to be opened up for cleaning of the action and opening the magazine is extremely easy.
In fact it's easier since there's no magazine spring retention device that has to be removed to gain access to the spring and follower.

The KS7 has a cleaner, less complex look and feel, where the S&W has an overly "Busy" complex appearance with a lot of contours and features that seem to serve no purpose.
This is seen on a lot of new guns and appears to be a cosmetic attempt to make a new gun distinctive in appearance from competitors models.

If you don't like the KS7 carry handle/sight you can buy a Kel-Tec conversion to replace the handle with the KSG Pickatinny rail and add any sighting system you want.
To be fair, the KS7 handle works extremely well at inside the home ranges.

My bottom line is that the double magazine shotguns seem to be more a "range toy" to impress people with how fast you can fire off a lot of rounds, never mind that you aren't actually hitting anything.

I would also caution planning on using the mini-shells in any of these guns.
Possibly S&W has designed an action that is totally reliable with them, but the KSG and KS7 my not be.
Some Kel-Tec guns are 100% reliable with mini-shells, some seem to be until suddenly you get a stoppage, and some just won't work with them at all.
The ONLY way to find out which is it is to shoot enough mini-shells to verify to your satisfaction that THAT gun is reliable with THOSE shells.

How many that takes depends on what the minimum number you're comfortable with and how lucky do you feel.

No doubt S&W will sell a lot of these, but I'd wait for some actual shooters reviews, and if you think you'd like a bullpup shotgun, I'd strongly recommend handling a KS7 first.
 
I was not impressed with the bullpup shotguns initially but wound up liking a couple that I tested! A lot! I'm a shotgun instructor and have always ran a 500/590 or an 870. As far as these twin tube bullpup shotguns, there is one king... the DP12. As a shooter, I was absolutely shredding targets with that thing!!! The follow ups are insanely fast and there is no switches, runs empty you transition to pistol in a fight. That thing is some serious firepower and highly underrated. The S&W version is def interesting if there is a blue label avail I will pick one up and run the rails off it! Seems to have better controls then others as well as a better design overall for any conditions faced.
 
Why didn't they make this a semi-auto with a multi-position gas port? I would have already pre-ordered it if they did.

#4 buck in one and slugs in the other.

The Tavor is pretty sweet, but no mini-shells.
 
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I've had several Kel Tecs. All had problems so I won't even consider anything they have. As a 40+ year LEO I have accumulated quite a few riot guns. I have used them in self defense a couple of times. Usually if you need more than five shots you better throw the gun at them and run. It doesn't happen very often. Unless you're the victim of a Banzai charge I just don't see the need for 15 rounds. One or two usually takes care of it if you're a decent bird hunter. I like the old school riot guns and frequently practice slam fire with them. I realize the up and coming guys of today don't think like I do so maybe S&W will sell some new shotguns. I've got three different configurations of the S&W 3000 and feel very comfortable with any of them and I have a lot less in them than this new gun.
 
I guess I will stick with my three Mossbergs, 590A, 590 and Shockwave and one Remington 870 Police. I like the Shockwave with its SureFire forearm and CrimsonTrace green saddle-laser. I think I will wait until they get the bugs worked out of the M&P-12.
 
I guess I will stick with my three Mossbergs, 590A, 590 and Shockwave and one Remington 870 Police. I like the Shockwave with its SureFire forearm and CrimsonTrace green saddle-laser. I think I will wait until they get the bugs worked out of the M&P-12.

Agreed on the Shockwave with the Laser Saddle. I added the Streamlight TL-Racker and it's exactly what I wanted in a close-quarters home defense shotgun.

I took a hard look at the KSG before I purchased, but there were just too many bugs in the system (at the time) for me to buy one. I can only imagine that it will take a while for the S&W bullpup to be problem free. But I applaud S&W for at least entering the market...albeit a niche market.
 
I cut the barrel of my VERY OLD J.C.Higgins 12ga pump (about 30 years ago... to a legal 19")...(or maybe it's a Mossberg...?) It's really all you need... granted not as much fun for you youngsters, but it really IS all you will ever need in the home.

IMHO as always,
J.
 
I didn't see anyone mention it so I will. My favorite short barrel shotgun (18 1/2"-20") is the Ithaca model 37. I carried one for years and found them to be very reliable. A few years ago these things were everywhere for a good price as departments traded them in or auctioned them off. Thousands were made back in the early 70's as police departments were getting them for free through the Law Enforcement Assistance programs sponsored by President Nixon. Most of the stuff purchased through that program were guns, cruisers, and electronics. (lights and radios) The Ithacas were a mix of stocks and parts as they used whatever was laying around to build riot guns. Some were Parkerized with fancy stocks and game scenes engraved on the receivers. I've got several including one with the bayonet lug and hand guard (bayonets are no longer used for riot control), a marine finish long magazine, a US marked Viet Nam era (five shot), and several more. To me the five shot is the perfect balance. I especially like the bottom ejection as I shoot shotguns left handed. As far as this M&P 12 is concerned, I'll keep and use what I have.
 
I didn't see anyone mention it so I will. My favorite short barrel shotgun (18 1/2"-20") is the Ithaca model 37. I carried one for years and found them to be very reliable. A few years ago these things were everywhere for a good price as departments traded them in or auctioned them off. Thousands were made back in the early 70's as police departments were getting them for free through the Law Enforcement Assistance programs sponsored by President Nixon. Most of the stuff purchased through that program were guns, cruisers, and electronics. (lights and radios) The Ithacas were a mix of stocks and parts as they used whatever was laying around to build riot guns. Some were Parkerized with fancy stocks and game scenes engraved on the receivers. I've got several including one with the bayonet lug and hand guard (bayonets are no longer used for riot control), a marine finish long magazine, a US marked Viet Nam era (five shot), and several more. To me the five shot is the perfect balance. I especially like the bottom ejection as I shoot shotguns left handed. As far as this M&P 12 is concerned, I'll keep and use what I have.
The 1st shotgun I ever purchased was an Ithaca M37 back in '76. It has been a great gun. I bought the 28" Mod barrel for small game and the 18" Deerslayer barrel for deer hunting in NJ as it was illegal to hunt with a rifle. Still have it.
 


I'll try skeet next time.

Well, I forgot the stupid red dot, so was lobbing in the mini-slugs by feel. Went high on most, hit the plate with a few. The racking action is smooth, and had zero issues going between 1600fps rifled slugs and the minis.

It holds 20+1 of the mini-slugs.

I'll report back after more trigger time.
 

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