Joe1956
Member
I'm in the process of obtaining a New Service Smith in 455. It has British proofs and has not been modified to 45 ACP. My question is how many were sold to the Brits ? It was made in 1915. TIA...Joe
New service in 455
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Joe,
The New Service Model was made by Colt. S&W supplied 2 models to the Brits, the 1st Model HE also known as the New Century Model and also the 2nd Model HE. If you could post some pics it would help identify which model you have
The New Service Model was made by Colt. S&W supplied 2 models to the Brits, the 1st Model HE also known as the New Century Model and also the 2nd Model HE. If you could post some pics it would help identify which model you have
Certainly should say on top of the bbl., by patent dates if Colt or Smith & Wesson made the gun.
Just answere a query yesterday over on the Colt Forum, about the approximate # of .455 New Services made for the Brits in 1915-1916. Unlike S&W, Colt did NOT use a separate serial number range for their "special contract guns".
Best estimate we can figure is at least 55,000 Colt New Services for the Brits in .455. Unless they were a special, private order of a British officer, the British Colts all left the factory with bright blue finish, 5.5" bbls, and the standard, black "hard rubber" stocks and lanyard loop.
S&W made about 5,000 of the famed Triple Locks for the British, starting a separate serial # range at "1" (in addition, about 650-700, were quickly converted from .44 Special, and are in the "regular" N frame serial range. This model is known as First Model Hand Ejector .455.
Next, S&W made just under 70,000 of the 2nd Model Hand Ejectors, withoud the Triple Lock and the under barrel "shroud" for the ejector.
BOTH S&W models were "originally", high polish blue", wood grips, with inset "gold" medallions, lanyard loops, and in 6.5" bbls.
These revolvers that were "exported back" to the U.S. in the 50's and 60's, to be sold as surplus, tend to have "many proof marks", and show nicks and dings from the anti-handgun English just "tossing" most of them in wood crates for the "boat ride back here"
Dealers here converted many S&W and Colt .455's to .45 Colt and .45 acp(and NOT always "skillfully" either!). In addition, especially the Colts, will be found frequently rebarrelled and recylindered into "non .45/455 calibers".
Living in Maine, I have been fortunate enough to get Canadian Colt & S&Ws .455's, and they are nearly always in far nicer condition, "non converted"; the .455 Colt cartridge, as made for many years by Dominion CIL of Canada, was a fairly powerful round for these guns.
Bud
Just answere a query yesterday over on the Colt Forum, about the approximate # of .455 New Services made for the Brits in 1915-1916. Unlike S&W, Colt did NOT use a separate serial number range for their "special contract guns".
Best estimate we can figure is at least 55,000 Colt New Services for the Brits in .455. Unless they were a special, private order of a British officer, the British Colts all left the factory with bright blue finish, 5.5" bbls, and the standard, black "hard rubber" stocks and lanyard loop.
S&W made about 5,000 of the famed Triple Locks for the British, starting a separate serial # range at "1" (in addition, about 650-700, were quickly converted from .44 Special, and are in the "regular" N frame serial range. This model is known as First Model Hand Ejector .455.
Next, S&W made just under 70,000 of the 2nd Model Hand Ejectors, withoud the Triple Lock and the under barrel "shroud" for the ejector.
BOTH S&W models were "originally", high polish blue", wood grips, with inset "gold" medallions, lanyard loops, and in 6.5" bbls.
These revolvers that were "exported back" to the U.S. in the 50's and 60's, to be sold as surplus, tend to have "many proof marks", and show nicks and dings from the anti-handgun English just "tossing" most of them in wood crates for the "boat ride back here"
Dealers here converted many S&W and Colt .455's to .45 Colt and .45 acp(and NOT always "skillfully" either!). In addition, especially the Colts, will be found frequently rebarrelled and recylindered into "non .45/455 calibers".
Living in Maine, I have been fortunate enough to get Canadian Colt & S&Ws .455's, and they are nearly always in far nicer condition, "non converted"; the .455 Colt cartridge, as made for many years by Dominion CIL of Canada, was a fairly powerful round for these guns.
Bud
DHENRY
Member
I am the lucky owner of (British-service) .455 TL # 1644. It was expertly converted to .45LC.
Its finish is still quite nice.
I can live with the proof and de-mil marks.
Great shooter!
Don
Its finish is still quite nice.
I can live with the proof and de-mil marks.
Great shooter!
Don
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
This is a 1st Model 455 (stocks are not original). The 2nd will look the same except that the ejector rod will be exposed rather than shrouded as on the 1st Model (and it will lack the third locking point at the base of the ejector rod).
Ah, DHenry beat me with an even better example.
Ah, DHenry beat me with an even better example.
DHENRY
Member
SP,
They're ALL good!
They're ALL good!
jd45
Member
DHENRY, & SaxonPig, BOTH your guns are HOTTTTTT!!!!!, but I lean toward DHENRY's, cause it's been re-chambered in .45 Colt, my favorite pistol cartridge. Glad aslo to hear it's a great shooter, D! jd45
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Mine is also recut to 45 Colt.
But his is much nicer and has the correct stocks (which would kill my hand during shooting).
But his is much nicer and has the correct stocks (which would kill my hand during shooting).
DHENRY
Member
SP,
One of the annoying things about old .45's and .44's is that most of the 'cowboy spec' low-pressure loads are really filthy and almost as smokey as blackpowder loads.
Ron Reed is working up some cleaner-burning (but still safe for the oldsters) loads for me, and I'll be happy to report back after trips to the range.
The basic problem with .45LC is that it was designed as a blackpowder cartridge, and there's enough empty cartridge to drive a truck through!
Loading for low power and clean-burning is somewhat of a challenge.
With the newer stuff, hotter loads, fmj bullets, etc., it makes for easy cleaning.
But I have no interest in blowing up the old TL or the .44 HE 2nd!
Don
One of the annoying things about old .45's and .44's is that most of the 'cowboy spec' low-pressure loads are really filthy and almost as smokey as blackpowder loads.
Ron Reed is working up some cleaner-burning (but still safe for the oldsters) loads for me, and I'll be happy to report back after trips to the range.
The basic problem with .45LC is that it was designed as a blackpowder cartridge, and there's enough empty cartridge to drive a truck through!
Loading for low power and clean-burning is somewhat of a challenge.
With the newer stuff, hotter loads, fmj bullets, etc., it makes for easy cleaning.
But I have no interest in blowing up the old TL or the .44 HE 2nd!
Don
Thanks for the info ! I think I said New Service because my local dealer has one in 455 at a price above my limit for Colts. Pictures of soon to be mine at http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=79064620
Obviously it is not a pristine example, but, hey, the price was right! Thanks again !!!
Obviously it is not a pristine example, but, hey, the price was right! Thanks again !!!
cmj8591
Member
Yes, I know. This is a Smith & Wesson forum but all this talk about lend/lease guns got me excited so here in mine. This Colt New Service is in 455 (And still is in 455!). The letter says that it left Hartford in March of 1916 with 999 others. The photo does not do it justice. I've been to a 1000 gun shows and can count on one hand, minus my thumb the number I've seen in this shape. The Colt came to me in a four way trade with two boxes of ammo with 6 empty cartridges in one. I would bet that those may have been the only ones put through this gun since it was made. The only blemish is a chip out of one of the grips. Now I just have to find a HE to put next to it in the safe.
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