New Shield .40 will not feed rounds consistently.

[A.Christopher]

Both mag springs appear to be installed properly (see photo). Also, you will see the feed ramp is polished and wipes clean very easily after 200 rounds. Other than shooting a video clip of my grip technic and wrist lockup at the range, anything else do you suggest I check?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[A.Christopher]

I've just noticed that while unloading the mags to check the spring orientation, the very edge of the casing seems to be catching the front of the mag. It doesn't get stuck, but does seem to catch and has some resistance at that point. Here's some photos to help explain. Can some one check to compare and let me know.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wolf1775]

Is that when the round is pushed directly from behind like the breach face would in order to strip a round from the mag, or is that when you slide the round forward by pressing on the top of the round?

A quick fix to try would be bending the spring slightly to have the top of the carrier tilt so more pressure is being put on the front of the round, as well as adjusting the mag lips so that it allows the round to be stripped easier. A video of our shooting or having someone watch you would also be useful to see if limp wisting is a factor.

 

[George9]

Be careful with the speed on the roto tool. Looks like that feed ramp got hot and that could change the temper of the metal. Also looks like the roto ran off the left edge causing some marks on the edge of the ramp.. The best way to do up a feed ramp is to tool it in line with the feed ramp not with the roto tool round wheel rotating on the round of the feed ramp. It is easer to do this way and does work but you get a much better job if you polish in the same direction as the bullet is being fed. Get a wood dowel just a tad smaller than the feed ramp wrap 2000 to 8000 grit cloth around the dowel one time. Now degreas the feed ramp paper tape everything including the barrel everything except the feed ramp that is. Not hit the ramp with gray primer paint just enough to cover the ramp. Next take that down you just made up keeping this angle true to the ramp at all times give it 5 strokes look at it, may be a few more.. This will bring out all the imperfections and make them stand out like a saw thumb.. Now you know where to address the issues with the tool you just made till it's fee of tooling marks then and remember roto buff in the direction of the bullet traveled up the ramp as this is against the factory tooling marks that you can't even see right now .. That said again recheck your springs a round should not nose dive.. A gun Smith showed me this method. George

 

[A.Christopher]

Be careful with the speed on the roto tool. Looks like that feed ramp got hot and that could change the temper of the metal. Also looks like the roto ran off the left edge causing some marks on the edge of the ramp..

You maybe seeing the reflections that make it look like it's discolored (or the chromatic aberration from the iPhone camera lens). The speed was at it's lowest setting with very light pressure. I can positivily 110% assure you that it did not run off the edge and mark anything, only Felt to Feed Ramp contact. Thanks for the tip on sanding it with a wooden dowel, I've watched a tutorial somewhere on this method but I really don't want to go that far with it, would probably end up sending it in if it comes to that. I'll try tweaking the spring to see if it lifts the nose up at all. But can you check your mag by pushing the bullet out from the rear of the mag to see if the casing touches the lip? I would appreciate it if some one could.

 

[George9]

Yep my M&P .45 rounds do catch the mag " Like your .40 do" when pushing out by hand right at the case.. But so does my Ruger LC9 and LCP .380 if done by hand. I have a S&W Gen 3 6906 and that will do the same thing yet they all fire and feed 100%... I use to have a Parker compact 1911 that if I didn't let go of the slide when chambering the first round that first round would nose dive.. Sounds more and more like a mag, mag spring issue to me mow.. Don't tweak the feed lips on the mag yet until you get a mag in your gun that works correctly.. Are the springs the same length? Could they be mixed up.. Maybe try swapping them but mark them first so you know what mag they came out of.. I would swap them springs anyway just for the heck of it them give it a try. Be careful if you're working with live ammo.. George

 

[A.Christopher]

Thanks for checking George9, I compared the Shield mags against my 40c and BG 380 and neither of those touched so I thought maybe i was onto something. The two mags that are different sizes, 6 round and 7 round that came with it so the spring lengths are different. I would still like to see if anyone can check there Shield mags to see if the casing catches the mag... apples to apples comparison i guess. If I do bend the mag spring up more at the top, there wouldn't be any adverse effect on it right? It would either just resolve the issue or will not? In other words I don't want to bent it too much and have more issues onto of this one lol.

I thought about going to the range today to put another couple hundred rounds through it, and do a video clip of my grip and wrists but my Apex DCAEK Kit and Trigger Kit came in for my 40c so I'm going to install that instead since I'm anxious to see how that turns out. I'm holding off on installing all the stuff in the Shield until this issue is resolved.

 

[Bkreutz]

The two mags that are different sizes, 6 round and 7 round that came with it so the spring lengths are different.

Looking at your pic, both springs have the same number of turns, which isn't surprising. The 12 round compact and 17 round FS mags (9mm) use the exact same spring, I think that's MecGar's money saving strategy. The thing I find odd is that your followers seem to have the longer legs on the front of the follower. Every other follower I've seen has the long legs on the back of the follower. I don't have a Shield so I can't check this, just seems strange. I'd try swapping the springs as suggested and see what happens (just to eliminate another variable). The best may be to try a different mag. Does your range have rental guns? Maybe they would let you use one of the rental mags as a test.

 

[George9]

I would not tweak the spring in any way. Bending them will make them lose their temper in that spot and will affect the springs.. I would still try the longer spring in the shorter mag.. You may not be able to load it fully but you may learn something that way with out altering your springs.. See if it functions that way.

 

[George9]

Bkreutz, Are the followers oriented right?

 

[Dino1]

I cannot be sure if this is the cause here, but some magazines for the third generation stainless autos were shipped with the mag springs in backwards. This caused reduced pressure at the front of the cartridge and failing to lift the nose of the bullet above the front of the magazine.

BINGO, you hit the nail on the head. That is why I said to remove the spring and bend it upwards so to put more pressure on the front of the follower. Even if it is in right, what do you have to loose, it cost you absolutely nothing, and it may fix the issue. Even if the feed ramp appears to be polished, if you look at it in a magnifier glass you will see tiny ridges. and a better polish job with compound, not polish will remove them, then follow up with some polish. I do this to every semi auto I have before the first bullet is fired.

 

[A.Christopher]

Finished the Apex install on the 40c and wow does it feel awesome, makes me wish i could tear into the Shield to install it even more now. I went ahead and took one of the shield mags apart and bent the top of the spring a noticeable amount. We will see if that helps, or just breaking everything in with more rounds after my next range session. I will report back in a few days with the results.

 

[A.Christopher]

Looking at your pic, both springs have the same number of turns, which isn't surprising. The 12 round compact and 17 round FS mags (9mm) use the exact same spring, I think that's MecGar's money saving strategy. The thing I find odd is that your followers seem to have the longer legs on the front of the follower. Every other follower I've seen has the long legs on the back of the follower. I don't have a Shield so I can't check this, just seems strange. I'd try swapping the springs as suggested and see what happens (just to eliminate another variable). The best may be to try a different mag. Does your range have rental guns? Maybe they would let you use one of the rental mags as a test.

Yeah, i see that now, didn't realize they used the same springs in different size mags. One range that I go to doesn't rent any guns, the local gun club is the other range i shoot at and so far, each time that I shot i was the only one there, which is kind of nice having the range to myself but no gun rentals there either.

 

[Bkreutz]

Bkreutz, Are the followers oriented right?

Look like it to me, I was just commenting on the apparent long follower legs in the front part of the follower rather than on the back like it apparently is on every follower except for the Shield. Strange.

 

[Dino1]

I see from the pics of the barrel that the grooves I speak about are present, but I also see that the lower part of the ramp appears to have a slight lip on it. That may be a problem letting the round feed properly. If it were my gun I would do a detailed polish on the ramp with a slight file on the lower part to transition of the ramp to the mag loading the bullet.
If that doesn't work... send it back. But the polish job on that ramp needs more work. You can see the mill marks in it that I spoke about still. But I will admit that the lower part of the ramp does not look quite right. Seems to have a slight bulge in it from what I see in the pic. I'd bet I could fix that in about 5 min. and a nice polish on the ramp. But then again that's not what you paid for.

 

[A.Christopher]

Well I made it to the range today and again it was 8 rounds that failed to feed out of 200 WWB ammo. I will say that the last 70 rounds fed without any issues. I brought a flashlight with me to take a closer look when it jams so I could see if I could tell what it might be hanging up on. Turns out it's not even touching the feed ramp when it jams. Check out the two video's and let me know what you think.

Shield.40 Fail to Feed Video1

Shield.40 Fail to Feed Video2

 

[rwsmith]

Send it back....

It's obvious what it's doing, but it ain't obvious what is causing it. I'd send it back at this point.

 

[Wolf1775]

Hmm... curious, is the round just catching on the mag, the slide catching on the round that's caught on the mag, or the slide locking back on top of the round catching on the mag?

Possible causes could be a bad mag if it's only one, either from the mag lips being too tight or not enough spring pressure (which would be odd for a new mag). Or the extractor is too tight and won't allow the round to feed properly. Or the breech face (or striker channel) has a bur that rounds may be catching on. It looks more like a mag problem though.

If you got a video of the pistol being fired when a failure to feed occurred that'd be incredibly insightful, but well above and beyond considering how many rounds you'd burn through to get it. I'd give S&W a shout and see what they can do for you. Just be prepared to wait if you send it in since they've got a lot of work that they're dealing with. They'll make things right, but it might take some time.

 

[George9]

I can't see the videos.. You say it's not catching on the feed ramp. Are the rounds still taking a nose dive? I could see it was in the pictures you posted and hitting the bottom of the feed ramp too. Any chance you are hitting the slide stop under recoil. I did this myself with a 1911 that I have not shot in a few years. I couldn't get through a full mag scratched my head and other shooters down the range at the time could not pick up on it.. I went home thought about it and figured out that could be the only thing I could be doing as I had my gun for many years and it always ran 100% never an issue.. Well it was because I put it down for a few years to shoot other guns and changed my grip.. I just make sure I'm conscious of my grip and I'm all set. Not sure if you could be having this issue.. Try shooting one handed too.. George

 

[A.Christopher]

Hmm, not sure why the links aren't working for you.
Try this Link 1 and Link 2

The angle and shadow in the photo makes it seem as if it's hung up on the feed ramp. In the video i am shining a light while taking the video and moving the camera around to minimize shadows and capture different angles, and you can see its not touching the feed ramp at all. If I was hitting the slide stop during recoil, wouldn't it lock the slide fully open rather than partially open? I guess I can try to shoot only one handed next time at the range to see what happens.

I did send an email to S&W with the details of my issue as well as the photos and videos. But have a feeling they'll want me to send it in, and it will be a really long wait.