New To Forum, I have a gun.... 357 Magnum Transitional Postwar

[ACK95]

Hello

I just registered to the forum. So hello and Merry Christmas.

I have a gun, it is a post war pre 27, it is an "S" model, and it is a 47-48 year, Ser# S 71,XXX

N Frame, 357 magnum transition model. This is one of the 142 produced during the transition period as per the 2006 S&W Book. It has everything to a T, as per the book.

Obviously, the book states that this gun in any configuration is worth between 8k to 10k in great shape, but that was as of 2006, and I have what I believe is the original box as well.

Questions I have are:

1. Rarity- If it is 1 of 142, how many others of the 142 are known of? Do you know of their whereabouts or any that have sold? Any info would be a help on the current history of the 142 guns.

2. Being almost a 6 year old book, is there any resource available that could tell me more than the 06 book does?

I believe I have the needle in the haystack.

Thanks, and look forward to your comments....

 

[handejector]

Welcome aboard.
A very desirable gun.
Yes, we know where several of them are.
What barrel length? Tell us about the box, and pics would be great.
Value will be affected by condition and originality. I can tell you that the economy has not helped the market the last three years. Your gun is desirable and saleable, even in tough times, but it still comes back to originality and condition.

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

What is the barrel length?

I'm sure the experts will be along soon.

 

[ACK95]

It is a 3.5" Barrel, and the condition I would say is most definitely in the mid 90% range. I will try to post photos soon. The box is all blue, with no markings or writing on it whatsoever, and as I read in the Smith book, it stated that during that time, these could have been ordered and sent to FBI agents. The box is absolutely clean, blue, no writing at all, and has the metal corners that hold the lid together. It has the paper inside that the gun was to be wrapped or covered in as well. I would say the box is easily in the 90%+ range of condition as well, but others may tell me otherwise, as I am not an aficionado of how to rate guns or their boxes.

Look forward to more replies.
Thanks

 

[Muley Gil]

In my experience, a plain blue box would have been used to ship a revolver back to owner, after that owner had shipped it to the factory for a repair, modification, refinish, etc.

I THINK it would have shipped originally in a gold box, or even a maroon box. I really don't know all that much about boxes. I used to use them to seperate my brass while reloading.

 

[RKmesa]

Transitional...

I THINK it would have shipped originally in a gold box, or even a maroon box.

...or maybe a blue pre-war 357 Magnum box as well.

I'm looking forward to some photos and if you want to sell it, I'm sure that there would be a few of us here (me included) that would be interested in it.

Welcome to the Forum!

 

[ACK95]

Thank you RKmesa. Seems as there is a lot of information here on the forums, but I am fumbling through it trying to learn about my specific gun.

I tried to take some photos of it earlier, but they all turned out bad due to glare from the artificial lighting, so I am going to take some tomorrow in the natural light to reduce the glare and give everyone a good look at the gun and the box and their condition.

As far as selling it, the answer is yes, I am interested in that depending on my findings, and I am going to call S&W to try to obtain information about where it was shipped to, etc, and a letter from them. If this gun is from the 142 group of transitional 357 magnums, then it should go to someone who will truly appreciate the gun. Not that I don't, I just am uneducated about this gun, yet I am reading a lot and quickly learning. Or.... do I shelf it and hang on to it, as I am only 35 years old, but I can appreciate a good old gun and its quality. As an example, I recently stumbled upon an old Pre 64 Model 70 .243, snagged er up not knowing the value, and was pleasantly suprised at my findings.

So, where can I learn more information on other peoples .357 mag trans post war guns, or even on mine? I have read the most in the smith book, but there has not been much on the net that I can find.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you!!

 

[DCWilson]

Welcome to the forum. Probably the best selection of information about .357s of any era will be found right here in the forum archives. There is a "search" link in a menu bar near the top of the page that will help you. The Google search box is probably your best bet; its focus is limited to the forum and in my experience is very useful. The forum's built in search function, which you can also try if you want to, is somewhat literal and has some search string length issues that mean you will not be told of some posts that might be relevant.

Definitely looking forward to the pics. I love the postwar transitional N-frames.

 

[handejector]

The forum's built in search function, which you can also try if you want to, is somewhat literal and has some search string length issues that mean you will not be told of some posts that might be relevant.

Sticky: SEARCH Instructions

 

[ACK95]

Thank you for the search info. Pics are coming as we speak.

 

[ACK95]

Welcome aboard.
A very desirable gun.
Yes, we know where several of them are.
What barrel length? Tell us about the box, and pics would be great.
Value will be affected by condition and originality. I can tell you that the economy has not helped the market the last three years. Your gun is desirable and saleable, even in tough times, but it still comes back to originality and condition.

Thanks for the info. When you said "several" I had assumed that 40 or 50 had been accounted for.

I borrowed the following from another thread and posted it here, for my reference and following comments. Just learning about the gun. I borrowed it from the poster listed below. Hope nobody minds. Getting Photos uploaded shortly of my trans gun. Thanks again.

hi
here is a list of the guns we know about from the 142 made.

SERIAL # SHIP DATE CONDITION BARREL
S-71667 1948 85% 3-1/2
S-71598 12/15/1948 98% 3-1/2
S-71642 Nov-46 97% 6
S-71788 1948 90% 5
S-71796 12/23/1948 75% 5
S-71992 12/23/1948 85% 5
S-71655 6/30/1948 98% 8 3/8
S-71885 11/18/1949 97% 8 3/8
S-71972 6/29/1948 99% 8 3/8

most of these were made for police departments and will be in the 5 inch and 3 1/2 inch and most likely will not be in the highest condition.
the 8 3/8 guns were made for special people. the 6 inch were most likely
special order and not for police depts.

Jim Fisher
S&WCA 1491

 

[ACK95]

Here are a few photos of the .357 Mag Transitional

The ser# is shown as S-717xx, so right between the ones you already know of.

Not the best of photos, but here you go.

I took the side plates off or wooden grips, and they are stamped the same so the entire gun has matching serial numbers. The one behind the ejector rod on the barrel, the one behind the ejector plate or star (as you push the ejector rod away from the barrel), the bottom of the frame as pictured, and the cyliner. All matching.

Enjoy the photos, and please comment.

 

[gripper]

You have a nice gun, but.......I think there is a good possibility the barrel has been shortened. It doesn't look right.

Chad Gripp
SWCA #2323

 

[ACK95]

I am no doubt a lesser educated gun guy, but from what I see, I highly doubt that it has been shortened, but again, less educated....

thanks for the comment for sure!

 

[RKmesa]

Sorry to be the one that breaks this news, but that gun has been worked on and it does not appear to be a transitional 357... Signs noted from the photos:

1. No roll marks on the sides of the barrel

2. No recessed cylinder - most likely a 38/44 Outdoorsman cylinder that may have been bored to 357 (all 357 cylinders were counter-bored/recessed until 1982)

3. Front sight does not look right (pin also looks buggered or larger than most S&W front sight pins).

4. No concentric circle grooves on the hammer.

My read is that this is a post war transitional Outdoorsman Frame (check the top strap - I assume that it is NOT checkered, as the 357 would be). It looks that the barrel was cut down and the side markings removed (is the top rib on the barrel checkered or just grooved? If grooved, then it is a 38/44 Outdoorsman barrel). Also the ejector rod knob is the later small knob, but the cutout in the barrel shroud is for the larger pre-war knob (a fairly sure sign that the ejector rod has been replaced). The barrel also looks to be refinished - not sure about the frame. If you remove the grips on the left side there should be another rounded pin just below the "horn" on the magna grip (see photo of a prewar Outdoorsman frame below showing the pin just above and to the left of the grip medallion) - if it is flush with the side it has probably been polished smooth when it was refinished.

STILL - very cool looking gun, just not a transitional 357...

Thanks for the photos,

 

[ACK95]

You had me curious, so I just measured it, and it is 3.5 inches from tip of barrel to the cylinder. So I assume that is a 3.5" barrel.

 

[gripper]

Most likely cut down from a 6 1/2 inch barrel.

 

[lowhog]

open the cylinder and look in the ejector rod shroud on the barrel.Do the serial numbers in the shroud match the frame? Serial numbers on the face of the cylinder should also match.

 

[ACK95]

Yes, every number on the gun matches, so theoretically it is all stock.

The numbers and locations that I found are:

1. On the butt of the gun.
2. On the inside of the grips (match)
3. On the inside of the ejector rod shroud (match)
4. On the face of the cylinder (match)
5. Behind the ejector plate on the cylinder side (match)

The only numbers on the gun that are not the same are where the frame opens up at the cylinder, and my friend told me that was an assembly number or production number or something of that nature.

I appreciate all of your comments, it will really help me narrow down this thing and figure her out!!

Thanks again!
But again, that is why I started this thread to find out about my gun. In the smith book on page 153, it states that even though there were common parts, that they also used alternate parts to manufacture guns, and that of the 142 guns made, they will not all be exactly alike. It even referenced the top groove vs checkering of the top of the barrel and the frame as being one of these instances. And since it was chambered for a .357 I assumed this to be the transitional gun from the period the serial number references. I will have to do more homework on this gun and ultimately call smith and wesson. I called them today, but found out that they are closed until January 4th 2012 for the holiday season, so until I get the actual facts from them, I am assuming, and the seasoned experts here are giving me good factual information based on their knowledge, but I am still not convinced that it is or is not what it is. The book says a lot about the gun and the randomness of the differences/changes from gun to gun. It may be the 38/44, but I have looked at the gun over and over, and had many locals in the last week look at it, and it all looks original as far as the blueing, it appears to be the "SATIN" finish per the smith and wesson book. I have seen many re-blued guns, and in my limited experience, this does not look like a redone job. (again, limited experience). My friend who is an avid S&W guy immediately noticed the fact that the cylinder was not recessed, and it raised his eyebrow a bit. He is the one that I borrowed the book from.

Either way, it is a cool gun, and my first S&W revolver, I own the SW99 .40 cal gun as well, and they are my only 2 pistols. Then I own an old Belgium Browning A-5 shotgun, and an old Winchester model 70 pre 64 in a .243, then a few random common guns that aren't worth mentioning.

 

[gunnut44]

Still a cool looking gun, too bad it is not what we all thought it was.