New to me - 1006

[BLUEDOT37]

...by returning to design features of the original 1911, a flat bottom firing pin stop and a main spring that is 2 pounds heavier.
Yes, it adds to the trigger pull...

I don't know why you say this? I set up my Colt Govt. Series 70 to shoot 45 Super & did both of these things, even went with a heavier mainspring & it still has the same light trigger pull it had before. The mainspring on a 1911 doesn't have the same adverse affect on the 1911's SA trigger as it does on a S&W 3rd Gen., in that it makes it harder.

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[WR Moore]

OK, we were issued the 1006 from 1992-2006 and based upon long experience, I'd like to pass on a couple of items.

The recoil spring tension of the 1006 was carefully calculated. I'm not sure of the figures on the 1006, but with a 1911, standard recoil spring and hardball, the impact of the slide hitting the frame in recoil was ~700 Gs. The impact of the slide going into battery after stripping a round and feeding it was ~750 Gs. Obviously, if you increase the recoil spring tension, the impact loads go down in recoil, up in feeding.

Now the interface of the slide stop and slide assembly is different on the S&W design, but you want to be very, very careful about juggling recoil springs to avoid excessive wear. Back in the day, some really stout recoil springs were popular in 1911s and we saw a lot of launched slide assemblies due to slide stop and barrel underlug failure.

I'm not real sure what the stock recoil spring rating is, but I wouldn't go more than a couple pounds over stock and stock would probably be the best choice. But, it's your toy, just realize you're gonna have trouble replacing broken parts.

The original extractor spring is/was p/n 102020000. The upgraded medium extractor spring is/was p/n 235630000. The medium is suggested.

 

[Nicholas]

OK, we were issued the 1006 from 1992-2006 and based upon long experience, I'd like to pass on a couple of items.

Can you tell us who "we" is?

The recoil spring tension of the 1006 was carefully calculated. I'm not sure of the figures on the 1006, but with a 1911, standard recoil spring and hardball, the impact of the slide hitting the frame in recoil was ~700 Gs. The impact of the slide going into battery after stripping a round and feeding it was ~750 Gs. Obviously, if you increase the recoil spring tension, the impact loads go down in recoil, up in feeding.

I would assume S&W engineers ran the calculations in order to design the proper weight of the slide. Who did the 1911 calculations?


I'm not real sure what the stock recoil spring rating is, but I wouldn't go more than a couple pounds over stock and stock would probably be the best choice. But, it's your toy, just realize you're gonna have trouble replacing broken parts.

From everything I've been able to research on the Internet (and it's all true ) Looks like 18 pounds. I'm not one of those users who gets a new gun and starts making changes willy-nilly.
Almost all of my handguns are stock or have had grip changes only.

My SR1911 10mm is the only one with modifications which were carefully researched - and did not involve a recoil spring change.

The original extractor spring is/was p/n 102020000. The upgraded medium extractor spring is/was p/n 235630000. The medium is suggested.

Thanks @WR Moore, appreciate your comments. This is the main reason I started this thread to seek knowledge from current or prior users of the 10 series handguns. I spent 40 years in the coal mining industry and learned the many, many ways that things could be broken.

 

[captain92]

I have run a 22lb spring in my 1006, now following a little bit of online research, backed up by Moore's post above. I am rethinking that, will be installing a Wolff 20lb instead.

 

[WR Moore]

Nicolas, John M. Browning did the 1911 design based upon experience and the cut and try method. He's famous for a comment to the effect that "________ is one drop of inspiration in a barrel of persperation." He was referring to his record as America's premier firearms designer. [A raft of Colt autoloading pistols, the Winchester 1895/1895 and model 12 shotgun, the Browning A-5 and superposed shotgun, the Browning High Power. Then there's the military arms: the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) and M1917, M1919 and M1921 (became the M2) belt fed machine guns. I'm sure I've missed a few.]

Even with highly trained engineers, there's still an element of cut & try in effect. The Remington 1100 has a sterling reputation for reliability, but the early guns had an issue with cracked receivers that required a different ejection port shape to solve. Given the way we pounded our 1ssue guns with full power ammo (high training standards), S&W did a good job with some minor issues about extractor springs.

For factory stock spring rates check with Brownells, Wolff Gun Springs or S&W Customer Service. S&W P/N 201610000. Midway and Numrich Gun Parts/GPI both include factory P/Ns in their listings-usually minus the last 4 zeros. Per Wolff, the 18 lb rating is factory stock and they have them available.

 

[Nicholas]

@WM Moore

I just installed a Wolfe 18 pound spring so I'm anxious to see if it feels/shoots any different from last week.

I think JMB would be pretty happy to see what his 1911 design has spawned in the last 100 plus years.

 

[WR Moore]

FWIW from a longevity standpoint, I was able to buy my issue piece at a really good price (NO commercial demand for them). All we used was the standard 18 lbs spring regardless of ammo issued (changed every 5K rounds/5 years/feed problems-which ever came first). After 14 years of extensive use there's no frame damage.

Most of the usage was with full power ammo (including 5+ years with a custom load: 180 gr XTP @ 1250 f/s, +/- 50 f/s). The last few years was with FBI spec loads which were essentially .40 S&W spec.

Be VERY careful installing the recoil spring assembly. It's real easy to launch the assembly if you don't get the flange in the notch in the barrel. Keep it pointed away from you during installation/disassembly.

Don't use WhiteOut on sights. Hobby Lobby and others has Testors model paint. You want gloss white, apply with a toothpick.

 

[RGPM1A]

Got your PM and sent an email, hope I hear something tomorrow.

Thanks very much

Back in 2011 I got a SS guide rod for my 1006. It was S&W part number #231340000.

 

[Nicholas]

I have a SS guide rod in-bound, should be here Saturday. Thanks to Captain92 for providing the name of a forum member who manufactures the rods.

 

[tlawler]

I have a SS guide rod in-bound, should be here Saturday. Thanks to Captain92 for providing the name of a forum member who manufactures the rods.

Welcome to the 1006 club. I liked mine so much that I bought another. Please ask the forum member who fabbed the guide rod for you if he would be willing to do more. I'm certain there are several 10xx owners on here that would gladly pay whatever he is asking to make new ones.

 

[Nicholas]

1006 stainless guide rod

I'll be happy to do that. The gentleman is Paul Howell and his email is [email protected].

He tests each rod in his own 1006 for fit and function. I believe his price is reasonable considering the maching and assembly time required. Feel free to tell him you got his name from me, Nick Marsh.

 

[captain92]

I'll be happy to do that. The gentleman is Paul Howell and his email is [email protected].

He tests each rod in his own 1006 for fit and function. I believe his price is reasonable considering the maching and assembly time required. Feel free to tell him you got his name from me, Nick Marsh.

I will follow on Nicks post here. I gave him Pauls info. I found Paul's info here a few years ago. He has made two 1006 rods for me, plus a couple for the 4506/645, and recently one for a 4566. These are stainless steel, made exactly to the S&W spec for the rods, and has the spring loaded button in the end as well (I don't know what else to call it). I think he does paypal too. All of you in need of a more durable guide rod instead of the stamped aluminum one should contact him. Honestly I would post some pics, however all of my guns are in another location than I am posting from. Paul can certainly provide pics. Glad you have one inbound Nick!

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I believe his price is reasonable considering the maching and assembly time required.

Are you free to tell us what he charges?

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[Rock185]

Hello Nickolas, interesting about the guide rods. All of my 10XX S&Ws, bought the first soon after they were introduced, came with stainless steel guide rods. I called S&W several years ago and attempted to buy an extra SS guide rod. The CS person said the guns had never come with SS guide rods. Guess there's something wrong with my current 1026, just as all the others, it has a SS guide rod. I had aluminum guide rods in several 9MM S&Ws. They always got chewed up. It's good you're going to be able to obtain a steel guide rod.

As to recoil springs, I have used all manner of energetic factory and reloaded 10mm ammo in my S&W 10MMs. In the 1006s and 1026s I've always just used the standard factory 18# weight springs. Never an issue. Heavier recoil springs, dual recoil springs, buffers, etc., all considerations for the 10MM 1911 types I had, but never needed with any of my 1006 or 1026s. I've used the original Norma, CorBon, Buffalo Bore, and equivalent reloads in my S&W 10MMs. Never an issue with any of them. Reliable, and nothing ever bent, broke, deformed, cracked or crumbled with any of them. I'm down to my last few rounds of the old old Norma 200 @ 1200 load. Doubt Walmart has it

 

[James&theGiant1911]

Funny how much all 10xx smith owners end up in the same situations. Hogue grips are awesome on this gun. I use the sleeves personally but the 1076 is one of my favorites. Novak still does trigger work on them as mine has the Novak's trigger job. It smooths out the trigger some and reduces take up for the da/ as which to me is the only draw back of these. Otherwise great firearms

 

[Nicholas]

Guide rod installed

My new stainless guide rod arrived today. Installed it along with new Hogue grips, can't wait to try it out now.

Paul charges $60 shipped for a 1006 guide rod, each one is tested for fit in his own 1006.

Big thanks to all who have commented, you have been a great help with my first 3rd Gen gun.

 

[BruceM]

Real gunsmiths figured out that controlling the higher velocity slide was best accomplished by returning to design features of the original 1911, a flat bottom firing pin stop and a main spring that is 2 pounds heavier. Yes, it adds to the trigger pull, but it does not batter any of the parts and it retards the rearward motion of slide and barrel better than a heavier recoil spring.

The S&W pistols, with the slide mounted safety, do not allow for a simple of a modification, so they made the slide heavier. If you are worried about battering a 1006 with heavy 10mm loads, then use a heavier hammer spring to control slide velocity.

Actually, what gunsmiths figure out is a work around to a problem. What designers and engineers come up with are solutions. The correct way to resolve the problem is to re-time the action for a 37,000 psi 10mm round as opposed to a 19,000 psi .45 ACP round the way Paul Liebenberg did it on the S&W 4006 prototypes & 1911 Centimeter conversions and Peter Stahl did it on the linkless 10mm's such as the SA Omega. I believe both Glock and SIG approached it more or less the same way.

Bruce

 

[Nicholas]

How did they re-time the action? Is this before or after the 10xx series were released?

 

[BruceM]

On the 4006 prototypes, the inclined lower lug on the barrel was revised in order to keep the action closed slightly longer which allows internal pressure to drop during the firing sequence. Peter Stahl did the same thing on the Omegas. On the 1911 Centimeter conversions Liebenberg redesigned the swing link assembly. Changing that geometry did essentially the same thing. Liebenberg wrote a magazine article concerning this and I believe there's a link or re-print on his website. He goes on in the article that most current gun designers lack the education and/or inclination to do the calculations necessary to approach the problems in that manner and instead resort to work arounds like adding slide mass, messing with springs, firing pin stops, etc.. While the latter methods may work (for awhile), the guns are definitely less elegant and the work arounds introduce other issues usually.

Anyway.........

Bruce

 

[Execpro]

This is a great pistol with only one factory flaw.

It comes with a 18# recoil spring which functions well with all ammo but 3.( Hornady 180 gr, Winchester silvertip 175gr and one other I don't remember). These 3 loads almost equaled a 41 mag.in energy. I used the 10 mm to hunt with.

As mention in an above post,if you use a HOT load you need a 20# or 22# recoil spring . My 1006 wounld throw a round out of the mag to the ground on its way to chamber the next round. It wounld also beat the **** out of the frame from the recoil force.

It is an AWSOME gun. I sold mine many years ago but would get another one if I could find it at a reasonable price ( not worth a $1000 to me).

ENJOY and be Safe!