New to me 4506-1

[GhostfishHunter]

Ive been lurking and reading for a while, finally posting...just wanted to share my latest acquisition. I'm pretty pleased, it's in amazing condition, had a little dust and some very tiny surface rust spots on the bottom of the slide/top of frame, but nothing a few minutes of attention didn't take care of. No holster wear and unmarred grips so I'm guessing probably not a service gun, and after minimal cleaning it basically looked brand new. Original box and all original paperwork. Great freakin shooter too, this is my first 3rd Gen and I must say I'm pretty impressed. It handles and shoots far better than most .45's I've played with, including some high-end 1911's. I'm definitely going to be pursuing more 3rd Gens.

The rear sight body isn't on the gun in the pics because I took it off when cleaning the gun and underestimated the springs, haha. Lost both plungers and a spring somewhere in the shop. It's back on now though, and it's wearing new Hogue rubbers as well. I'll put up newer pics this evening.

 

[GhostfishHunter]

So now that you've all seen it, a couple questions for the experts!

Was wondering if anybody with the book could give me a manufacture date? From what little I know about it (laser etching, not "stamped" markings, MIM hammer/trigger) I'm guessing it's a newer model, maybe late 90's?

On the box next to the serial #, it says "Spec. Order 9305"...does that mean anything? If it was like a batch number for a specific PD is there any way to figure that out?

Anyone familiar with the Nills grips for it? They make them but with a "normal" 2 screw attachment rather than the single pin on the heel. I'm assuming I'll have to drill and tap holes into the frame for them to fit (if they will fit) and am just hoping to confirm that they are do-able at all for a regular 4506 (and not meant for some special PC model with grip screws or something) before I drop that kind of coin. Nills hasnt responded to emails yet.

Night sights - Trijicon SA-02's, right? Anyone know of other options? I have Trijicons on a SIG and have no issue with them, just like to shop around.

Appreciate any help with any of those, thanks!

 

[DCWilson]

The "special order" code is actually its manufacture date -- the 305th day of 1999, or November 1.

Can't help you with the rest, but it's a good looking semi-auto. I'd have said yes to it if I found it on my LGS consignment shelf.

EDITED: Sorry, date needed correcting to 1999 from 1989. Now fixed.

EDITED AGAIN: I'm kind of confused. The TDP serial number prefix is not recorded, but would fit in the 1989-90 timeframe if the factory was moving through the alphabetic combinations in order. But the SCSW third edn says that product code number 108143 didn't start production until 1992; it was still being turned out at the end of the decade. So were the TDP numbers held in reserve for several years? Somebody with better knowledge of semiauto production is going to have to help you, I'm afraid.

 

[mbliss57]

I am a little confused as well. I have a 4506-1 with S/N VDHxx. It was manufactured in 1995 and has no MIM parts. At least trigger and hammer.
S&W did reserve certain blocks of S/N for later production. Your S/N would be a late 1989-1990 but we know from several things that it is not. I believe David is correct as to a 1999 mfg date. But why S&W did the s/n's out of sequence like that is a small mystery.
DA18 may be around soon. He is our resident 4506 expert. He can probably shed much more light on this. At any rate it's a very nice pistol. They are really great shooters. I too will stack mine up against many 1911s in competition. And if you are in a fire fight and run out of ammo you have a 38.5 oz club to use as a backup weapon.

 

[Dot_mdb]

In regard to your question concerning the sights I am not sure what your intentions are. S&W apparently made a small amount of adjustable night sights. If you have the night sights than you can probably get them re-lamped by Trijicon. If you have the standard adjustables than you may be stuck with those because the standard Novak type night sight is not going to fit in the groove that fits the ajustable sight. I haven't looked recently, but I don't think that Trijicon makes an adjustable night sight for the 4506.

Bill

 

[GhostfishHunter]

In regard to your question concerning the sights I am not sure what your intentions are. S&W apparently made a small amount of adjustable night sights. If you have the night sights than you can probably get them re-lamped by Trijicon. If you have the standard adjustables than you may be stuck with those because the standard Novak type night sight is not going to fit in the groove that fits the ajustable sight. I haven't looked recently, but I don't think that Trijicon makes an adjustable night sight for the 4506.

Bill

Nope, no factory night sights, just looking to possibly upgrade them. Its not something I'm especially concerned about, but its something I might want to explore down the road. My "research" leads me to believe that the Trijicon SA-02's will work, but as with the grips I'd ideally like to hear from someone who can give me a definitive answer before I drop that kind of dough. They sure look like they'd slide right in in place of the blades.

SA02 - Trijicon, Inc.

Thanks for the help with the manufacture date, gentelmen! Leave it to me to be the guy who gets a weird serial number, sheesh.

 

[GhostfishHunter]

Oh and here it is with the Hogues and reinstalled rear sight. I really like the Hogues, I have big hands and the extra girth they provide just snugs it up perfectly into my palm, makes the pistol feel like a part of my arm.

 

[18DAI]

Welcome to the forum! Congrats on your 4506-1! Great 45 pistol.

You have a very late model 4506-1, "dash 3" variant. These were made from 1999 to 2008 by S&W for Law Enforcement agencies. The very last ones made had laser etched markings such as yours.

VERY few of the last batches had adjustable sights. Even fewer had adjustable night sights. Most of the adjustable night sight 4506-1 dash 3's were LAPD guns or overuns from those orders.

You can read what I've found on the 4506-1 dash 3's in the notable thread index at the top of this forum. As I discover more I will try to update that thread.

Suffice it to say you have a VERY desireable 4506-1 there. Examples like it have sold for over $1K in LA area over the last two years. The 4506-1 making a resurgence in popularity among LAPD officers.

I'd wager it will prove to be a tack driver too. Please give us a range report! Regards 18DAI

Edited to add: I do not believe that Nills makes a grip for the 4506-1, or any 4506 model. IIRC they did make a 645 grip, but that won't work on a 4506. I would encourage you NOT to drill the frame on the 4506-1. If wooden grips are something you desire on the 4506-1 please check out the offerings by Hogue or one of the custom grip makers.

 

[Dot_mdb]

It looks like Trijicon has the replacement sight for your model based on the link you provided. You should probably call them to make sure. Looks like you just replace the sight and not the base.

Bill

 

[GhostfishHunter]

Welcome to the forum! Congrats on your 4506-1! Great 45 pistol.

You have a very late model 4506-1, "dash 3" variant. These were made from 1999 to 2008 by S&W for Law Enforcement agencies. The very last ones made had laser etched markings such as yours.

VERY few of the last batches had adjustable sights. Even fewer had adjustable night sights. Most of the adjustable night sight 4506-1 dash 3's were LAPD guns or overuns from those orders.

You can read what I've found on the 4506-1 dash 3's in the notable thread index at the top of this forum. As I discover more I will try to update that thread.

Suffice it to say you have a VERY desireable 4506-1 there. Examples like it have sold for over $1K in LA area over the last two years. The 4506-1 making a resurgence in popularity among LAPD officers.

I'd wager it will prove to be a tack driver too. Please give us a range report! Regards 18DAI

Edited to add: I do not believe that Nills makes a grip for the 4506-1, or any 4506 model. IIRC they did make a 645 grip, but that won't work on a 4506. I would encourage you NOT to drill the frame on the 4506-1. If wooden grips are something you desire on the 4506-1 please check out the offerings by Hogue or one of the custom grip makers.

WOW!!! Thats awesome! I have absolutely no intention of selling it but its always nice to know that I got a far better deal on it than I thought I did. It was kind of a random purchase, I was talking guns with a customer at work and he mentioned he had a 45 that he wanted to sell (he doesnt like 45s), that he had received as part of a gun trade. Id been interested in getting a 3rd gen for a while so I took him up on it. 500 for the gun and some random 1911 parts that I dont have any use for at the moment (anyone need a barrel, trigger, hammer and some springs?), and I felt I had slightly overpaid. Had no idea it was anything other than a run of the mill, later run, 4506 in great condition. Thanks a ton for the info, you made my day!

Range report: Ive put 200 through it so far, and after burning most of a box getting the adj sights re-dialed after their removal, its absolutely a nail driver. I dont consider myself to be anything special as a pistol shooter but I can consistently get 3-ish inch 4 shot groups at 15 yds and 6-ish at 25 taking my time, going fast its more like 6 and 10 with the odd stray. For me thats pretty good, especially with a unfamiliar gun. With more range time I can see myself shooting far better with this pistol than any of my others. Plus its a pleasure to shoot, a real mellow pushy recoil, gets back on target fast, and makes me look like a better shooter than I am!

Regarding the Nills, I'm definitely not drilling any holes now that I know its not "just another" 4506, but here's the link to the grips I was talking about for reference.

Karl Nill GmbH

 

[remat457]

Wow! Congrats that is a clean 4506!

 

[18DAI]

I recalled last night where I'd seen an identical 4506-1 to GhostfishHunters.

The movie Dark Blue with Curt Russell. He plays a member of LAPD's SIS, a distinguished unit that actually used the 4506-1. He uses an identical 4506-1 in the film.

You can clearly see the laser etched markings in the scene where he puts the mope in the car during the riots. Probably got some earwax on the front sight too. Regards 18DAI

 

[Firedawg]

Beautiful 4506! I can't wait to get back to the range with mine to get the sights dialed in!

 

[alrany187]

My "research" leads me to believe that the Trijicon SA-02's will work, but as with the grips I'd ideally like to hear from someone who can give me a definitive answer before I drop that kind of dough. They sure look like they'd slide right in in place of the blades.

I wrote to Trijicon on this very subject recently and was told that the SA02 was the replacement sight for the 4506.

Ellis

 

[mscampbell2734]

Actually SIS was issued 4566s. Remember they are a plain clothed detective detail, not uniformed.

Also yes, prices in the LA area for 45XX guns are out the roof. I think its the younger officers hearing stories about " when I was your age kid", and the cool factor of the badass Smith 45 instead of the run of the mill Glock 17

 

[Ruger Nut]

I am new to the 3rd Gen S&Ws. I just recently got my first one. (5906)
But, I have some Q?s about the pistols in this post.
I know the 1911 is a good pistol and is in a class all its own. But this 1K series and a 4506 are so much alike and compared to a 1911 are very similar. Except for all the extra doo-dads on a 1911.
How would you compare the performance of a 3rd Gen to a 1911? Besides looks, what is so different between the shooting ability of a 3rd Gen compared to a 1911?
Oh, and I do know the 1K series is 10mm.
Keep in mind I am just talking about the 1K series and 4506.
I don't know what the S&W 1911s cost but you can get a Ruger 1911 for $700 or less.

 

[mscampbell2734]

While 3rd Gen Smiths and 1911 may look similar they are mechanically very different.

The 1911 is a much simplier design, being a single action only with a sear blocking thumb safety.

Most 3rd Gen Smiths are double action/single action, with a slide mounted decocker/safety. Their are multiple variations however, including the 1076 frame decocker, double action only/no safety, spring mounted decocker etc.

Also the 3rd Gen Smiths use a camming block locking block design, where rails built into the frame pull the barrel down out of engagement with the slide. On the 1911 a swinging link is used to pull the barrel down.

The Smiths started out in the 60s with the Model 39 and 59, and were intended for military trials that never happened. Smith marketed them to the civilian LE and citizen shooter marketed and over time they evolved to what you see today. A couple of years ago Smith dropped all metal framed autos from their regular production, except for LE bulk orders.

As for shooting, the biggest advantage the 1911 has is its SINGLE action for every shot. With DA/SA guns you have the first shot with its long heavy press and follow up shots with the shorter press. Makes for a serious challenge to fire quick pairs/double from the holster.

Most 3rd Gen Smiths are very accurate and reliable right out of the box, something not every 1911 can boost. Also the 3rd Gen guns do not need the almost constant inspection and upkeep of tuned 1911s. Possibly the only drawback I've seen from my own experience is they do need to be kept clean and lubed, more so then 1911s. 1911s can be downright filthy dirty but a few drops of lube and they're good for another 250 rds.

 

[18DAI]

Ruger Nut as mscampbell2734 has covered the differences between the 3rd gen 45's and the 1911's very well and in detail, I'll only add that while I was initially trained on semi auto pistols with a 1911, I discarded them as soon as I was able. I can carry anything I wish, on and off duty, and have no use for any 1911's. I still own two 1911s, but they are range only toys.

I choose S&W 3rd gen 45's due to their extreme reliability. The so-called "break in period" for a NIB S&W 3rd gen 45 ends when you remove it from its box. Regardless of what you feed them they function. I've actually fired rounds so old and uncared for, that they had green verdigris on them, through a confiscated 4516 no dash.

Unlike mscampbell2734 experience I've never had any issues with a dirty 3rd gen 45. I took a LE model 4566 (spurless hammer/decock only) through a two day 1500 round school once. I showed up with it cleaned and lubed with a new recoil spring and five brand new mags. It never got cleaned during the class and never missed a beat shooting 230 grain ball purchased from the lowest bidder. Made me look good too.

I have found that excluding the Performance Center variant 3rd gen 45's, every 3rd gen 45 is unique in its accuracy and what round it "likes best". I've found the 4506-1 "dash 3s" to be the most accurate standard production S&W 45, across the board.

I've also come across several tack driving 4566s over the years. The Melonite RJF serial prefix being particular tack drivers.

I'd rate the accuracy of a standard production S&W 3rd gen 45 as equal to all generic 1911's such as the Colt Government model, Springfield loaded, Rock Islands, Rugers and Kimbers. Of course you might get a "Monday gun" in either model pistol. But generally, I've not seen a difference in the hands of the average shooter. Or expert shooter either for that matter.

And in my experience, I've found the much ball-hooed on the internet; "Double to single action transition" to be largley a training issue. Quite easily overcome through exposure, practice and experience. I've had newbs learn to shoot using a 5906 that didn't have any trouble moving on to a Glock or DAO pistol, and still went back to their TDA to compete or carry on their own time. I never knew their was a DA to SA transition "issue" till I got on the internet.

I've shot a Wilson Combat and a Les Baer 1911 that were equaled in accuracy (when shot both by me and their owners) by my 4506-1 dash 3 VJP prefix. Their owners were a bit green when I informed them that the 4506-1 dash 3 was a standard production LE pistol that cost me less than $600.

My well used 4513TSW LE trade shoots under two inch groups out to 15 yards using 230 grain Winchester RA45T.

Good pistols! Regards 18DAI

 

[xcpd69]

Edited to add: I do not believe that Nills makes a grip for the 4506-1, or any 4506 model. IIRC they did make a 645 grip, but that won't work on a 4506. I would encourage you NOT to drill the frame on the 4506-1. If wooden grips are something you desire on the 4506-1 please check out the offerings by Hogue or one of the custom grip makers.

Nills Does make grips for the 4506 series, but they do require drilling and tapping the frame for a two screw setup, like the 645/745 series. Karl Nill GmbH

I considered getting a set for years, but the drilling (One hole already exists in the grip frame, not sure it lines up) of an additional hole at least, and the tapping, added to the expense of the grips,(About $182.00) made me procrastinate.

I would really like some larger grips, to fit my hands better. The rubber Hogues I have now do that, but aren't "pretty." (Sorry, I'm old enough that I stil appreciate "pretty" over "Tacticool"....)

By the way My 4506 is one of the late overruns I picked up NIB about ten years ago. Envelope with fired case dates 2001.