New to me CORE. Now which RDS?

Ohsheepdog

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Just traded for this 9mm CORE and am interested in mounting an RDS. This will be a fun gun for now, and I'll eventually use the slide & RDS on my duty gun.

I've read several white papers and articles on the various models and brands, but I'm looking for your experiences. Primarily I'm concerned with reliability and ease of use as it will be carried in a duty holster 40+ hours a week in all weather conditions. I'm aware Safariland makes a SLS/ALS model that protects the RDS.

Also curious about the advantages and disadvantages of the different dot sizes, as well as comparisons between fiber optic/LED/ adjustable LED models.

Thanks!
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Rm07 on the core rm02 on the Glocks.All with 6.5 dots .I use a Glock 17 with the rm02 as my duty weapon for the last year.
 
Look hard at a Votex Venom with ether 3 or 6moa dot but if your first dot optic maybe the 6moa dot might be best . Also the price is one of the lowest life time warranty and very good battery life . I took a RMR off our m&p core and replaced it with the venom .
 
Which RDS?

Trijicon RMR 06 (Adjustable 3.25 MoA red dot)

That’s my preference for a full size pistol, based both on extensive market research and from owning and using two of them for the past three and a half years. See links below. I have a third RMR 07 on a Glock 17 I rarely use, and a Shield RMS milled on my 9mm Shield slide because it has a smaller footprint for the narrower slide. Four total. All milled. I’m committed. I estimate I have researched over 500 hours on this topic. I have roughly 4,000 rounds through my RDS pistols over the last four and a half years.

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My first RDS was the RMR 07 with the 6.5 MoA adjustable red dot. It came on a used, milled M&P FS 9mm. I found the larger dot occluded too much of more distant targets, and RDS are wonderful for longer range shots with aging eyes like mine. It also was more difficult for 10 yard sighting in as it was often bigger than the center of my targets. The larger dot is no easier to “find”. I bought an 06 and like it better.

The dot is in your window because you are gripping and pointing in correctly, not because it is big. The small dot is plenty visible. Because it is adjustable for brightness, you can go from the nominal ~3 MoA size to a blooming dot at the brightest setting that is probably closer to 5 MoA.

I have not used any of the other light options in an RDS. I like simple, and for me that’s an adjustable RMR ‘06. I’ve heard some good things about the new small Holosun RDS, but they have not been out long, had some teething problems, and are hard to find. Interestingly, it has the same footprint as the RMR. I wonder why?

There is no more robust sight on the market than the Trij. This is in part because of their patented top window reverse curve which transfers shock down the sides of the frame instead of into the lens. No one else (except for cheap counterfeit Chinese knockoffs) can use this design. The v2 models have resolved some minor circuitry issues with v1 models. These are what every other RDS aspires to be like. If you are going to put your life on the line in a LEO capacity 40 hours a week, you do not want to compromise with substandard components and systems.

The Trij sits lower than many. This makes it easier to use and to cowitness, and if you are serious about duty use, you need robust and BUIS co-witness. It also has the most widely used milled footprint, even though you have the longer CORE slot that will require using a mounting plate which raises the sight and degrades the strength of the mounting because the screws are shorter. I’m not a fan of generic mounting systems for RDS. This is not an area for compromise, IMO. I choose not to use CORE, MOS, L-brackets, etc. Want it right, permanent, reliable? Mill it.

Buy once, cry once. This new sighting system is a serious, modern upgrade to a fighting pistol. With a proper introduction, the learning curve for an experienced shooter is short and the benefits of increased speed and accuracy become apparent quickly. There are lots of ways to cut corners and costs, but you sacrifice robustness, reliability and longevity.

Now, if you are not yet committed and really just experimenting with the RDS concept, you can go the cheaper route. You may be handicapping yourself though. Then you might miss the real benefits. There all kinds of ways bottom feeders have come up with to get a semblance of a red dot sighting system on a pistol. It can be done for a couple hundred dollars. That will give you a range toy. It can be done for $400-500 and you will have a serviceable system, but it will not be as robust and dependable over long term, rough use as paying top dollar for the system everyone else tries to emulate.

http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/7dc128_c8da57977a8c4b53903192fa603fce6f.pdf (Long white paper, but worthwhile. Check out Aaron’s videos where he destroys RDS’s and ends up recommending RMR’s)

GABE SUAREZ BLOG SI has been a leader in RDS sighting for 10 years. RMR is all they recommend.

Tactical Training Courses | Military Training for Civilians John is knowledgeable, experienced and very competent. Reccomends RMR’s. Check out his RDS videos.

American Rifleman | Shooter’s Tips: Learning the Red Dot

I could give you a few more links, but the same conclusions would just be repeated. I’m sorry if I’ve offended others who have different opinions and budgets, but there is a real difference between a range toy and a life-protecting machine.
 
I have two RMRs... a type 1 RM02 (6.5 MOA) and a type 2 RM06 (3.25 MOA). My M&P 2.0 slide just came back today from Primary Machine milled for my DeltaPoint Pro so I don’t have first hand experience with it other than some dry fire.

The RM02 is on a Glock 17MOS and has over 8,000 rounds through it. The original battery died in September 2018... a year after I installed it, and the replacement was still going strong when one of my partners switched it out getting ready for a Sig Academy RDS instructor class. It’s a tank that’s been thrown in mud, shot in rain, frozen, left in snow, then frozen, shot in 100 degree plus heat, and removed and replaced without losing zero.

My RM06 is mounted on my M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm on a Dueck Defense RBS mount. I only have 1,200 rounds through it so far but it’s great. I’ve used it in the rain and did a bunch of low-light shooting with it, both with and without a WML. I’m gonna order a JMCK AIWB holster for it with a TLR7 and it will be my off-duty carry gun.

Several guys on our staff have optics on their pistols. One broke a DeltaPoint Pro at a bit over 10,000 rounds. No one has broken an RMR yet, but I don’t think any of them have quite that round count.

I did use a Sig P320 with their Romeo 1 MRDS in a Sig Academy Instructor course last year and it ran pretty well. My only issue was the dot failing to “wake up” on the draw a couple times. A good whack and it was back in action... of course.... I’m an RMR fan.

That DPP and it’s big window though... it’s sooo big....
 
Don’t do fiber optic dots. Icky.

I like the 6.5 MOA for non-corrective astigmatismatic loser eyes during daytime, but the 3.25 works and I like it better overall. The adjustable LED is a monster for low light awesomeness but a royal pain (buttons are hard fo me) compared to the auto adjust, which is the easy button. I do like both, but as much as it’s a pain, the adjustable is better for me.
 
All I've owned are Romeo 1's and Vortex Venom. I would not recommend the R1's. I have 4 guns with them and not a single one has the original optic on it. Reliability is just awful on them, even though they've had years to get it right and have been through several generations. They are running away from it now with the new optics they showed at the recent SHOT show. Hard to put much trust that the new ones will be any better, given their track record so far. And the Romeo "lifetime" warranty has a gotcha' in it, too. Electronics are only warrantied for 5 years.

The Vortex Venom has been bulletproof so far. Nice optic. It's on my 2.0 5" M&P.

All of mine are 3MOA, which I prefer for more pinpoint accuracy.
 
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CB3 After some range time with both in near dark conditions you will understand why vortex or shield rms are better options for carry over a trijicon . The coated used by trijicon across the line reduces visibility but you know that since you have a shield rms too . Your also quick to knock other brands when the shield company has a rather interesting history like trijicon and I am one that's had a gen 1 problems and a not so top notch CS from them ether. Anyhow the gen 1 was sold and I was told the RM5 would be good replacement if I wanted to try a different model !! It is purely a second class optic over all . I did check out the gen 2 rmr but not a fan of the lens coating ether . The Venom is lower cost but cheaper ? Nice that we have choices . To bad the extensive market research does not cover the clarity of the lens in low light conditions or updated models . The shooter that sold me on the venom has 35,000 rounds of 9mm super comp loads thru his Venom for almost 2 years and uses it uspsa .

You like what you have but don't preach as they all do have some down sides . That's why you have factory sights too .
 
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Thanks for all the feedback. I'm going with an RMR type 2, and will check out the different dot sizes.
 
I was just about to post my prediction that you would wind up choosing RMR. But I see you already arrived there.
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The advice here matched what friends and associates said who have experience with handgun RDS... and almost everyone said a smaller dot is better. Most likely buying a 1moa dot, maybe a 3.25 if the price is really good
 
Since you have already decided my vote for Vortex (and their wonderful Warranty!) is probably moot...

Cheers!

Trijicon has a lifetime warranty on rigid structures and five years on circuitry.
 
Picking a dot size has a lot to do with what you use it for and you skill levels . Consider a 6 moa dot only covers 1.5" at 25 yards . A 8 or 9 moa dot can be about right for short range fast shooting even by a number of pro shooters and a change of gun and optics for Bianchi Cup Steel matches to a 2 or 3 moa dot . If your hunting with a handgun a 2moa is nice out to 100 yards . Circle dots , not sure how I would use it . AR Carbine or 22 long gun match maybe , not on a handgun .
 
The advice here matched what friends and associates said who have experience with handgun RDS... and almost everyone said a smaller dot is better. Most likely buying a 1moa dot, maybe a 3.25 if the price is really good

I went through this same process about a year and a half ago, deciding if I want a dot. Mounting options? Dovetail mounts? Milled slide or factory slide built for rds? What size dot? What make?

I spent a lot of time reading online, including this board, picking the brains of people I knew using RDS on carry guns. Watched some videos, particularly Aaron Cowan.

It wound up being a fun process and I learned some things along the way.

At the end of it, and considering my intended use, I chose to have my gun milled mounting an RM06 on it.

Enjoy!
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Well OP, I don't have any red dots on pistols, but that sure is a really nice looking pistol you got there!
Thanks! I traded my KelTec Gen2 Sub2000 for it. The CORE already had the Apex trigger installed and came with a Bravo OWB, so I feel like I got a good deal and we're both happy. Ironically, he bought it and had the Apex installed at the shop where I used to work.
 

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