Why?
HP38/Win 231 is excellent in the 45 ACP
FYI, CLAYS is essentially Red Dot
Powder equivalents, ADI Powders Handloaders' Guide
New to reloading .45 ACP--advice?
- Thread starter Waywatcher
- Start date
Why?
HP38/Win 231 is excellent in the 45 ACP
FYI, CLAYS is essentially Red Dot
Powder equivalents, ADI Powders Handloaders' Guide
OP
Waywatcher
Member
Sounds like Clays burns cleaner, from my reading, than Red Dot. I have it available. I think something in the burn rate of Red Dot or Clays is probably going to be my ticket, because I only desire moderate velocity, and by the reports I've read, Win 231 at moderate velocities can be dirty from an incomplete burn. I like to optimize my powder choice to reach a good working pressure at the same time as it reaches my target velocity, meaning for me in this case, I think the faster burning tier of powders is going to be my ticket. Probably overthinking it, but, that's what I do.
fredj338
Member
Not really. Clays gets really weird at the top, red dot, more linear. Promo is exactly RD, just no red markers.
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David R
Member
The last 8 lb jug of promo I bought was sixty dollars. You saw the targets, I will continue to use it. Yes its the same as Red Dot weight wise but not the same volume. Shotgun loaders have to change the powder bushing when switching from red dot to promo.
David
David
Sounds like Clays burns cleaner, from my reading, than Red Dot. I have it available. I think something in the burn rate of Red Dot or Clays is probably going to be my ticket, because I only desire moderate velocity, and by the reports I've read, Win 231 at moderate velocities can be dirty from an incomplete burn. I like to optimize my powder choice to reach a good working pressure at the same time as it reaches my target velocity, meaning for me in this case, I think the faster burning tier of powders is going to be my ticket. Probably overthinking it, but, that's what I do.
If you have Red Dot, and Clays is essentialy the same powder, why get the same thing
If you want another fast powder that has been used since time began in the 45 ACP then Bullseye is the one. Look at the burn rate chart for Clays, Red Dot Promo. They just can't put the on the same line.https://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html
Dirty, clean powder is blown out of proportion. Anything that burns is going to leave some residue. You clean your guns ,so again what does it matter.? HP 38 is only "dirty" at very low charges ay mid range it is no worse than anything else.
The powders are not the culprit it is the wax lube used on lead bullets that captures all the soot.
OP
Waywatcher
Member
If you have Red Dot, and Clays is essentialy the same powder, why get the same thing
https://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html
Dirty, clean powder is blown out of proportion. Anything that burns is going to leave some residue. You clean your guns ,so again what does it matter.? HP 38 is only "dirty" at very low charges ay mid range it is no worse than anything else.
The powders are not the culprit it is the wax lube used on lead bullets that captures all the soot.
I already have Clays, Red Dot, and 231. I don't have Bullseye, and it seems hard to find these days.
I've loaded many thousands of rounds of cast lead in .38 special and have come to appreciate clean burning powder. Just my experience.
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I already have Clays, Red Dot, and 231. I don't have Bullseye, and it seems hard to find these days.
I've loaded many thousands of rounds of cast lead in .38 special and have come to appreciate clean burning powder. Just my experience.
OH, I guess I read it that you were going to buy Clays and I knew you had Red Dot, so I did not see the purpose of buying the same thing. I do not use eithe of those so you know more about them than I do. You are correct about HP38 in that it is "Old Smokey" when used at low charges. Iy is however very versatile and can be used in most any handgun load. One of my trinity of powders. Bullseye, HP38 and 2400. Yes, I have others but with those 3 they will cover any handgun. If Unique metered better it could take Hp 38's place,
About the only powder that I have found that is really, really "clean" is Power Pistol. It leaves a light grey ash.
OP
Waywatcher
Member
Monday range night update!
Fired off 35 rounds of SWC reloads tonight (4.6 grains Red Dot, 1.235" COL, 0.469" TC, WLP, Win brass.) Still no malfunctions whatsoever, so that makes a total of 50 rounds of SWC down the pipe--no problems ever.
I didn't shoot at paper; only steel. I could tell they were still hitting a few inches high. Velocity average was 916 fps (4.6 grains Red Dot.) Clean Bore afterwards, but smokey. If I come back to Red Dot, it will probably be 4.4 or 4.5 grains.
I'm going to move onto Clays now, probably start at 4.1 grains. Maybe range again on Thursday night--it's a big maybe.
Thanks again for all the continued help and input, I really appreciate it!
Fired off 35 rounds of SWC reloads tonight (4.6 grains Red Dot, 1.235" COL, 0.469" TC, WLP, Win brass.) Still no malfunctions whatsoever, so that makes a total of 50 rounds of SWC down the pipe--no problems ever.
I didn't shoot at paper; only steel. I could tell they were still hitting a few inches high. Velocity average was 916 fps (4.6 grains Red Dot.) Clean Bore afterwards, but smokey. If I come back to Red Dot, it will probably be 4.4 or 4.5 grains.
I'm going to move onto Clays now, probably start at 4.1 grains. Maybe range again on Thursday night--it's a big maybe.
Thanks again for all the continued help and input, I really appreciate it!
OP
Waywatcher
Member
Made it to the range tonight! 50 more rounds of flawless SWC loads down the pipe, tried 2 new powders (Clays and 231) with 2 charge weights each (4.0 & 4.2, and 5.4 & 5.6 respectively.)
Found my load:
2.27" group at 20 yards, offhand. POI=POA.
4.2 grains of Hodgdon Clays (all other specs still the same.) Average velocity was 869fps. PF 173.
Cleaner than shooting than jacketed. Low smoke.
Perfect.
Found my load:
2.27" group at 20 yards, offhand. POI=POA.
4.2 grains of Hodgdon Clays (all other specs still the same.) Average velocity was 869fps. PF 173.
Cleaner than shooting than jacketed. Low smoke.
Perfect.
The smoke is the bullet LUBE. Therefore the name smokeless powder
I have taken large amounts of unknown powder from pulled ammo.(say the powder from 100 rounds) Make nice piles on a piece of tile and light it up. It burns very fast and hot with little to no smoke at all,
I have taken large amounts of unknown powder from pulled ammo.(say the powder from 100 rounds) Make nice piles on a piece of tile and light it up. It burns very fast and hot with little to no smoke at all,
Rocket-scientist
Member
20 years ago when I bought my first press and was looking for a good load some "geezer" in a gunshop in Prescott AZ told me to try a 230 grain lead round nose over 6 grains of unique. That worked great for thousands of rounds in multiple 1911's for me. Not a surprise since that old guy turned out to be Colonel Jeff Cooper...
