New to Reloading. Equipment question.

[Hfrog355]

I'm new to reloading and am just about ready to start my first batch of 44 magnum.

My question is about the need for an additional crimping die. I bought this Lee die set: 3 Die Set 44mag Carbide - Lee Precision. Do I need to purchase the Factory Crimp Die? I am somewhat unclear about whether or not this is necessary.

Sorry if this has been talked about recently. I scrolled through a couple of pages and couldn't find anything. Search didn't do much for me either.

I'm excited to get into reloading!

 

[arjay]

I've loaded for several decades on a single stage seating and crimping in one step.If the die is adjusted properly,it works quite nicely.

 

[chuckster57]

I've loaded for several decades on a single stage seating and crimping in one step.If the die is adjusted properly,it works quite nicely.

Substitute years for decades and you have my answer. I reload 9mm, 38 special, S&W 40, and 500mag. Never had an additional die.

 

[Hfrog355]

Thanks for the quick responses! I'm going to pass on the additional die and focus on getting the included die set properly.

 

[bigsteve113]

It can be useful at times, but certainly not necessary. I rarely use it on revolver cartridges.

 

[Big Stick]

Save a few cases, which are unprimed, but otherwise resized, and use them to set your bullet height and crimp. You can pull the bullets for reuse, or just same the cases to help reset your dies, should you change to a different bullet size...

 

[crankyoldlady]

According to the Lee website, if your dies were manufactured later than 1986 the factory crimp dies offers little to no benefit.

Manufacturers are rarely that forthcoming. Gotta give them credit.

 

[fredj338]

I prefer setting & crimping in separate steps, but your seating die has a crimp ring built in. I am not a fan of the LFCD, can cause as many problems as it solves. If you want to seat & crimp in separate steps, as in a turret or progressive, then just buy another seating die & remove the stem.

 

[Nemo288]

I'm with Fred.
If that is the FCD with the carbide ring, pass on it.
Once you get going and do want the extra control and ease of setup a separate crimp die offers, get the Redding profile crimp die.
It is generally accepted as the gold standard of crimps.
I started with the Lee carbide set 30 some years ago.
Still have it but use other sizing dies now.

===
Nemo

 

[robertrwalsh]

I also rarely use an extra die on revolver cartridges. Semi-auto cartridges is another matter completely. Also, if you use scrounged range brass it can be an issue as the roll crimp works best if all your brass is pretty much the same overall length.

 

[scooter123]

I've experimented with combined seat and crimp setups in 38 special and 357 Magnum and had way too many buckled cases. Per Euler's Theorems on Column Buckling the longer the column of a specific size/profile the lower the load at which it will buckle. Revolver cases are rather long when compared to semi auto cases and they will buckle if they are too long for the crimp/seat setup. The problem is that the bullet is still moving into the case when the crimp causes the case edge to "bite" into the bullet. When that happens the bullet will "stall" and as the press is closed you end up with a buckled case that won't fit any chamber made.

The only solution for this issue is to trim each and every case to a specific length. That is something I might be willing to do with Rifle cases but I refuse to spend many many hours trimming all my revolver cases.

As for the Lee Factory Crimp Die comments, the Lee FCD allowed me to restore about 25 buckled 357 Magnums back to shootable condition. Something the Haters aren't telling you is that additional carbide sizing ring is sized at the MINIMUM CHAMBER DIAMETER. As a result it will only reduce the size of an assembled cartridge to that minimum chamber diameter. This means that the effect of "re-sizing" the bullet in the case only occurs with a very heavy walled case and that change in size is not enough to effect accuracy.

BTW, my model 620 357 Magnum is equipped with a J Point Reflex sight and I test my reloads with it to insure accuracy of less than 1.5 inches at 25 yards from a hand rest. If I felt the Lee FCD were effecting my accuracy I wouldn't use it or recommend it. I use my FCD with every single caliber I own because it insures my assembled ammunition will chamber properly and they don't cause any observable loss in accuracy.

 

[mikld]

An FCD for handguns is entirely unnecessary. If you have a problem with a round chambering, find out why and correct the problem (usually just die adjustments), don't just cover it up. I have tried Lee FCDs for handguns and my die in .44 magnum now resides in a landfull somewhere in Southern Oregon...

 

[gwpercle]

Save a few cases, which are unprimed, but otherwise resized, and use them to set your bullet height and crimp. You can pull the bullets for reuse, or just same the cases to help reset your dies, should you change to a different bullet size...

This is called a "dummy" keep them to set bullet seating depth easily and quickly. No trial and error or measuring required.
Old school tip but still a good one!
Gary

 

[radtuck]

Here is a pretty good video telling how to set up Lee dies. I didn't like the instructions that came with my Lee set when I first got it. I wish I had this video when I was setting mine up, as the seating/crimping die was a little confusing to me. I thought that the outer adjustment knob should have been the crimp set, but it's for seating (which seems counter-intuitive). Plus, I'm more of a visual learner.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uZbTZCsIGQ[/ame]

 

[John R]

The fourth die is something that came about a few years back, been loading for 45 years using a 3 die set for pistol without any problems.

Guess it all boils down to your preferences.

 

[fredj338]

To say the LFCD has no affect on accuracy is just not true. Maybe the individual QC of the die & caliber, but my own tests show it does affect accuracy with diff bullets, plated being the worst. Shot at 50ft, my best 1911. I shot the test twice, with sim results. A lot of diff, no, but a diff.

 

[M29since14]

I too like to seat and then crimp separately, but if the standard die works for you and you are satisfied, no need to waste money buying another.

I am on the fence about FCDs in general. We talk about them here every now and then. I think you have to look at each use of them and draw your own conclusions. I don't use them for handgun ammunition. I do rather like them in hunting rifle cartridges using bullets that have a cannelure.

Controlling case length and not "over-doing" the crimping action with the FCD seem important to me. (Yes, I know Lee says case length is not critical. ) I have seen cases where the FCD seemed to improve accuracy, didn't seem to affect it, and seemed to make it worse - all about evenly divided. To me, the FCD is worth investigating with any rifle .300 magnum or larger.

 

[Nemo288]

The main problem with resizing the bullet after it is loaded ala LFCD is that some of us load different sized bullets on purpose.
Some are as large as .432+ to run thru revolvers with large cylinder throats (and the micro-groove rifles).
It would completely defeat this effort to make them smaller after they are in the case.
In fact the loaded rounds end up being large enough sometimes that they won't go into the Redding crimp dies.
In that case I do end up using a crimp seating die but one function at a time.

I also am now using the dual carbide sizing dies which leave most of the case at MAXIMUM diameter to just fit in the chamber.
This minimizes work on the brass and also centers the bullet in the chamber.
There is no noticeable difference in loading rounds in the cylinder.

This only applies to the revolver LFCD dies with the carbide ring.
I do, in fact, sometimes use the LFCD dies for rifle rounds that are just the collet crimp.

===
Nemo

 

[m1gunner]

I prefer to seat and crimp in 2 different steps. I use the regular seating die for this, just adjust the stem down so the crimp is not applied during seating. Then move the stem up and set the desired crimp. I haven't buckled a case since 85.