New twist on guns in restaurants

[Capt Steve]

Went out to dinner with my neighbor and his wife to celebrate her birthday a couple of nights ago. We went to a local restaurant/bar that we hadn't visited since last July. When we got to the door of the restaurant side of the business there was a no guns sign that had not been there before. My buddy is a retired LEO and always carries but he was going to have one drink to celebrate her birthday so he left his gun in the truck. When I asked why the change banning guns they said that since Arizona passed the "anybody can carry concealed law" they weren't comfortable with their customers being armed. The owner had no problem with CCW permit holders and had never prohibited them from carrying but the general public with a pistol in their purse or pocket with no formal training or demonstration of knowledge of the laws just had too much potential liability. There is no way he can say OK to permit holders and yet prohibit carry by those without the permit...so the signs went up.

Now while I had and still do have serious doubts about the wisdom of this new law, that went into effect last July 29th, I have yet to hear of any incidents where non permit holders have caused a problem for themselves or anyone else. I am sure the media would be all over any such incident so doubt I missed it. I also respect the owners right to post his business because it is just that, his business, especially since he never prohibited CCW prior to July 29th. The food and service are good and given his history I will continue to eat there occasionally and will always comply with his wishes by leaving my gun in the truck. Has anyone heard of any problems with the anyone can carry law here in Arizona?

 

[feralmerril]

I am a goot german! Now, just how are they going to know if you are carrying concealed or if your wife has a snub in her purse?

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

The restaurant owner simply wants to avoid the liability concern if there is an incident with a firearm in his/her establishment. That is why the sign was posted. However, in Florida, the CWP holder is authorized to carry in the restaurant, not a bar only, and dine in that portion of the restaurant. A drink is permissible at the table. The holder cannot sit at the bar or transit throught the bar area while entering the restaurant. The same holds true if a rest room was to be used. The holder must walk around the area of the bar portion of the Restaurant. If the restaurant is posted, the holder is assuming the liability and the establishment can refuse to allow the permit holder, if known, in the restaurant. As for me, any restaurant that posts a no guns allowed, will not earn my business. The are infringing on my rights and the second amendment.
Nick

 

[BarbC]

the general public with a pistol in their purse or pocket with no formal training or demonstration of knowledge of the laws just had too much potential liability

Here in PA, you don't need either formal training or a knowledge of laws to receive a concealed carry permit. You also don't need a permit to open carry. I haven't heard of incidents where law-abiding carrying PA residents wreak havoc.

 

[feralmerril]

Here in utah getting your permit basicly is attending a 4 hour philibuster on pertaining laws and some safety training. No range time. (At least thats the way it was 5 or 6 years ago.) Of course you get printed and checked. I was somewhat disapointed and surprised that we didnt have range time, but I probley shouldnt say that out loud.

 

[Capt Steve]

I am a goot german! Now, just how are they going to know if you are carrying concealed or if your wife has a snub in her purse?

FM, give me a break, goot German my butt. No one will know if you choose to break the law and carry where prohibited...unless you pull it, drop it or some one sees it printing through. If that happens you are likely going to jail and your days of legal carry are history. I don't pick and choose laws to obey as breaking the law makes you a criminal. Do you carry in courthouses, airports and the post office? If you don't like a law, and there are a number that I don't, either get it changed to suit you, comply or be willing to face the consequences of violating it. In this instance simply not eating there solves the problem. I am sure the owner will lose some business due to the signs but as I said, given his history, I choose, for now to respect his wishes. Since we almost never eat out it really doesn't make much difference to me.

 

[bitstream]

Here in Georgia you have to have a permit, but it's easy to get. No class, no test. Just fill out a short form, pay the $75 to the nice clerk, get your fingerprints done, and wait about 6 days for it to arrive in the mail.

As for carrying in a business, you can CCW in, but have to leave if they ask you to. Failure to leave after you have been asked can get you in trouble. I think the only place I've seen a notice posted is a local pawn/gun shop that has a sign "no loaded guns".

 

[venomballistics]

Here in PA, you don't need either formal training or a knowledge of laws to receive a concealed carry permit. You also don't need a permit to open carry. I haven't heard of incidents where law-abiding carrying PA residents wreak havoc.

ND's aside ... this is quite true.
to draw a deadly weapon in a peacetime scenario, is not a rational act. to bring fire to bear against another in cold blood, again quite irrational.
thats why CCW has been establishing a good history for itself. the most basic of sensibilities contribute to safety to a far greater degree than training.

 

[feralmerril]

Steve I am well aware most courthouse,s have metal detectors. I also have legaly packed for more than the last 45 years, not all the time since I retired, but when I felt the need and that has been seldom. If I was traveling and somehow ended up in a rough area and was hungry and the sign was on a door and I had a snub in my pocket along with my card, A. How would they know, unless I pulled it to save my life? And in that case, would I care about their stinking sign? B. If it really happened, it wouldnt even be breaking any law that I know of and only would hopefully let the resturant owner off the hook if a innocent got shot. Thats the purpose of the sign from the owners standpoint. C. I dont think I have been dumb enough to carry through metal detectors in a courthouse, airport or elsewhere. That sign isnt a hell of a lot more different than tearing that warning off your matress that says, Do not remove!
While I do have a permit and can carry legaly either open or concealed, I in fact probley carry far less than the average guy who also can legaly carry that is on this site. I have always had a nose for potential trouble and have been pretty sucessfull at it most of my almost 70 years, 36 of it as a security guy in the largest defense plant in the country and as a guard to the movie industry before that.
Common sense and demeaner is 99% of getting through life. And yes, my biggest hobby has always been unpoliticaly correct.---Profileing. And I have been damn good at it.

 

[venomballistics]

Common sense and demeaner is 99% of getting through life. And yes, my biggest hobby has always been unpoliticaly correct.---Profileing. And I have been damn good at it.

.... it's a shame we dont talk more

 

[bitstream]

, my biggest hobby has always been unpoliticaly correct.---Profileing. And I have been damn good at it.

Gee, you mean that guy who looks like a thug might really be one? But the libs tell me he's just misunderstood...

 

[scoutsdad]

In Arizona you still need a CCW permit to carry in a bar/restaurant that serves alcohol. And no drinking.