Newbie wants direction

cyphertext said:
When the Sport came out, the M&P 15T was a higher end rifle for S&W. It had a Troy rail and Troy battlesights, chrome lined barrel, and a higher cost. Now, the 15T has been changed. It is essentially a Sport with forward assist, dust cover, a free float rail, and Magpul BUS, with the same barrel and lower as the Sport. Without the Troy gear, the cost was lowered.

I think now you will see buyers looking at the M&P 15T more due to the lower price. Had I known about the new configuration of the 15T when I purchased my Sport, that would have been the one I would have purchased.
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BINGO !!! Any idea what the old # was on the original 15T ?

I take it the new 15T still has the chrome lined barrel ???

Forward assist,dust cover,free float rail are a MUST.

I'm thinking lay down sights (anything darn good and reliable ?) for a reasonable price. They are last resort back-up for a (something...) 3-9x 40 or 50 power,wide angle scope.

Any see through mounts that would work with the iron sights & scope together ? DON'T want a high scope. Or,just don't bother and go with low mount and good iron back-up.

Just looking for good sugestions to get started with.
 
mmcdonald said:
As a fellow servvicemen and one who uses his rifle five days a week i will say the M&P 15T is the way to go. If you want a good hardy rifle the way you are used to then do not cheap out and get the sport. it does not come with a dust cover or shell deflector which in a combat or any other needed situation is as we both know, vital. If you get the M&P 15T and add a new mil spec stock right off the bat then you will feel right at home with your old army memories.
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BINGO AGAIN !!! A mil spec stock is also a must. Anything you can throw in on/with my other post would be a GREAT help too. I need ALL weather too. All weather like humid 100+ (not including heat index) and -20 below zero (not counting windchill). Yup,if SHTF I will be surviving in "Hades", off the land at worst. Could have a cave at best.
 
Kodiakco said:
Brands: S&W, Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, Noveske are all known quality brands. As far as accessories, it all depends on what you want to do with the rifle. Hunting, home defense, plinking, zombie apocalypse, etc.

I do have to believe you would be happy with any of the S&W M&P models.
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^ this + LaRue. If you want a rifle with quality parts that are proven to last, stake their carriers properly , use quality steel. If you're going to shoot a hundred or so rounds a year then it doesnt matter.

Also you can get the Colt 6920 now for just under a thousand now
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oneyeopn said:
And a dust cover is vital if your in the middle east, plus a dust cover is not hermetically sealed. So vital is really subjective in this case! We are back to an old discussion that we have had many times. How many full fledged combat rifles or non-combat rifles have dust covers. My M60 that I humped in the sand and the jungle and everything in between didnt have a dust cover, I happened to replace the upper on my Sport, not because it had a dust cover and a FA but because I got a great deal on it and it had Marines and the insignia laser etched into it. When I am out hunting with it, I dont remember to close the dustcover until I am laying it down in its case. At this point in time, none of us are buying these for a primary weapon in a life or death situation and if it should come to that in our lifetimes I still dont think we will be complaining because we dont have a FA or a dust cover.
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Eugene Stoner never bought in to the forward assist, but did see the need for a dust cover. With all the BS over the years about running dry or using a dry lube I can remember back to the rifle range at Fort Ord in 1972 when we soaked our bolts in LSA before firing. Funny how lessons are learned, forgotten only to be learned again, facts are that the AR/M16 runs better with a wet bolt/carrier. It is current military policy to run them this way, if you keep the bolt/carrier well lubricated and use the dust cover to keep trash out of the receiver a quality AR fed quality ammo should have no problem being 100% reliable for thousands of rounds without being cleaned. I may not have a need to do this, but I like the idea of being able to do so. Bottom line is I would not have an AR without a dust cover, the M&P 15T is an OK rifle but if I was in the market and the price was close I would buy a BCM because it is closer to mil-spec.
 
Maddmax said:
BINGO !!! Any idea what the old # was on the original 15T ?

I take it the new 15T still has the chrome lined barrel ???

Forward assist,dust cover,free float rail are a MUST.

I'm thinking lay down sights (anything darn good and reliable ?) for a reasonable price. They are last resort back-up for a (something...) 3-9x 40 or 50 power,wide angle scope.

Any see through mounts that would work with the iron sights & scope together ? DON'T want a high scope. Or,just don't bother and go with low mount and good iron back-up.

Just looking for good sugestions to get started with.
Click to expand...

Here is a link to the spec sheet for the new 15T. The barrel is Melonite treated, not chrome lined. If you are looking for a "mil-spec, follows TDP" type rifle, then this one is not for you. Actually, I don't think any of the S&W line would be for you.

Product: Model M&P15T - 5.56 mm, Tactical
 
I am not going to waste my time with the mil-spec issue, it has been debated to the end and is not worth the paper it is printed on. If you have the desire to jump on the mil-spec bandwagon then go hang out in AR15.com or M4.net...those are the mil-spec guys. We over here like our S&W's.
 
cyphertext said:
Here is a link to the spec sheet for the new 15T. The barrel is Melonite treated, not chrome lined. If you are looking for a "mil-spec, follows TDP" type rifle, then this one is not for you. Actually, I don't think any of the S&W line would be for you.

Product: Model M&P15T - 5.56 mm, Tactical
Click to expand...

Your link is right on track with what I've been looking at and thinking about getting. I'm thinking the scope might work on that with some work and get me fairly what I want out of it. Just trying to find one local and a good price.

No worries. The S&W line and I get along QUITE well.
 
oneyeopn said:
I am not going to waste my time with the mil-spec issue, it has been debated to the end and is not worth the paper it is printed on. If you have the desire to jump on the mil-spec bandwagon then go hang out in AR15.com or M4.net...those are the mil-spec guys. We over here like our S&W's.
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No need to get your shorts tangled in a knot,I'm a friendly. If I didn't like the S&W line I wouldn't be here looking at M&P AR's. I already own 7 handguns in their M&P line and wouldn't be looking into their M&P AR line now if I didn't. Not easy to find a "hands on" that I can take appart and look at around here. Popularity and hard to come by says something for them.

This ain't my first "Rodeo" by a long shot. I don't care for or need a bunch of fancy do-dad add ons just for the looks. My "desire" is,I want function and reliability. So far,S&W has ALWAYS been reliable.

Got a mil-spec bandwagon close enough to goof on around here right in my own back yard. Don't need to go over there. I like it right here.
 
"Milspec bandwagon" has nothing to do with add ons and doodads. Just the quality of the materials used in making the rifles and making sure that no corners were cut.

People herd complain about sub par parts in revolvers but the same parts are apparently ok for ARs.

Like i said earlier if you put a few hundred rounds a year through your rifle then it really doesnt matter. If youre going to be shooting many thousands of rounds then youre better of with a milspec rifle. Besides when the difference is a few hundred dollars why not buy the better quality rifle.

Let me ask this. Would you pay say $400 for a Taurus copy of an M&P or pay $500 for the real thing?

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LOL I will most likely look at a more traditional AR15.(Is that even the right terminology) oR a sport without a lot of add ons. I believe that the basics are what you need 99% of the time. And the more toys you add to something the more maintenance required. This a a generalization on all firearms not just ARs. I like fixed sights better than adjustable. I like iron sights better than Crimson trace or lasers. Even better than a scope IF I can get away with it. Just less to go wrong.
I like wheel guns and bolt actions for accuracy if speed is not of the essence.
And of course I like semi auto / automatics when speed/firepower is what is needed.
 
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mbliss57 said:
It's time posting in this subforum...
I haven't fired an M16 since the mid 80's when I got out of the Army. As you can see by my posts I do a lot of wheel gun and semi auto buying and selling. I own a couple of shotguns and a .22 Rifle. But I never thought I might have any interest in acquiring a semi auto combat rifle. But as I walk through gun shows I see more and more of them and the sophistication now is out of this world. SO they now have my interest!
OK I am long winded...
Bottom line.. I want to pursue the acquisition of an AR 15 style rifle.
Can you point me to some post that are for beginners as to what to buy, what to watch out for? Or just somewhere that has many for sale WITH explanations what all the goodies they come with are for. Remember my M16 was about as vanilla as it gets. Thanks for any help.
Mike
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Mike...you can spend hours on this. In My opinion Colt is best bang for the buck.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&gid=5
 
Oh God the chart....once again the chart....ok you can come here to western Kansas and buy trade in Colts with H-Bars and quadrails all day long for $600, they sell the trade in Bushy's for $675. Stu I am so sorry about talking about tact.....I am so tired of all the people drinking the Colt Koolaid and then coming here and trying to talk about it. Go drink the colt koolaid but when your colt wont hold a group like my Sport or My M&P15 anything with the Melonite 1-8 5R barrel. We get so hung up trying to explain that comparing a chrome plated bore to a Melonite barrel is like comparing a new turbo engine to a flat head ford. Metallurgy has changed and changed a lot. When they came up with chrome plated bores thats what they had but we never mention the 5R rifling. there still is a lot of discussion about it but if you notice quite a few of the high end rifles are starting to use the 5R rifling, in fact Remington who has the contract now for the AR's (now that Colt doesnt have the monopoly what is going to save them) all of their top of the line rifles come with 5R rifling, besides the bullet not having such a jolt engaging the rifling there also is not as much resistance between the rifling and the bullet which when combined with the lubricity of melonite makes the bullet just slide smoothly through the barrel, Oh you think Chrome is slicker than melonite? go to the sticky threads and read the thread barrel specs for sport and look at the engineering studies done by Burlington Engineering. They dont even have a dog in this fight but they did a very thorough comparison between melonite and chrome. When you buy a colt your buying a name, and it is not even the name of the original producers of the AR (take another sip here) so keep living in your dream land! AAARgh this gets frustrating!
 
The chart isn't evil, but you have to take what it states and compare to your requirements. For example, the chart calls for a particular composition of steel for the barrel, and it also calls for chrome lining for corrosion control and heat dissipation. If you are going to clean your rifle regularly after firing, and are not going to be firing it in full auto, then you may not require this particular barrel setup. You may prefer a stainless barrel that is unlined or untreated, for the most accuracy potential. Or you may prefer a different twist rate due to the different projectiles you will be using. If you are using light, varmint loads, the 1:7 twist is not going to give you as good of accuracy as a barrel with a slower twist rate.

Mil-spec is simply the standard set of requirements that a rifle intended for military use must be built to. It insures that the rifle is built to the specifics that the military has set to meet their needs and specific applications. A rifle built for civilian use does not need to meet all of the same requirements, as the applications and end use of the rifles are different. If one wants a mil-spec rifle, there are many vendors out there that build to the chart specs, or close. I am a price conscious buyer, so I went with the M&P 15 Sport at about 40% less cost of the Colt 6920. Basically, each owner needs to decide what features or specifications are a must have and purchase within their budget.

Now, I know this site is a S&W board, so there is a lot of love here for the S&W AR, but if someone can really explain to me the short comings of my Sport and their real world impact on my useage, I am all ears. Other sites have such a hatred for anything outside of Colt, DD, BCM, or Noveske, that it is frustrating to have a conversation about a S&W. On the other hand, sometimes our brand allegiance on this board can also have a blinding effect.
 
I bought my S&W M&P15T with no regrets. To the OP, buy what makes you happy and without the "i wish i bought ......." in your head. I know guys that are happy with their rifle but, through these types of forums WISH they bought something else, even though their current rifle has operated as flawlessly.
 
The quote option isnt working on my phone this morning.

I really dont care of the barrel is chrome or molinite but just sitting at a bench and shooting small groups? ...whats the point? My rifles only get benched once, to sight in. After that they get shot at tactical courses. They get banged up, dirty, and they run all kinds of ammo, from wolf to Hornady. Thats how i know i have a good rifle. When in a weekend it shoot a thousand plus rounds in less then ideal conditions with less then ideal ammo, gets dirty, isnt cleaned and still keeps on ticking. And i have a basic Colt 6721. Nothing added. No scope, rails or red dots. Cost $650

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Arik said:
The quote option isnt working on my phone this morning.

I really dont care of the barrel is chrome or molinite but just sitting at a bench and shooting small groups? ...whats the point? My rifles only get benched once, to sight in. After that they get shot at tactical courses. They get banged up, dirty, and they run all kinds of ammo, from wolf to Hornady. Thats how i know i have a good rifle. When in a weekend it shoot a thousand plus rounds in less then ideal conditions with less then ideal ammo, gets dirty, isnt cleaned and still keeps on ticking. And i have a basic Colt 6721. Nothing added. No scope, rails or red dots. Cost $650

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Click to expand...

Are you saying that a Smith and Wesson is not capable of doing the same?

Some folks like shooting at a bench for accuracy. Some folks use the AR platform for hunting. When shooting at a prairie dog from 200 yards, accuracy is a must. Different end user applications will require different specifications.

Sounds like you got a good price on your rifle. I was not familiar with the 6721. Most now recommend the 6920 as the standard. If that is the new price today, it sounds like a viable option for a bargain shopper like myself.
 
All im saying is that bench shooting (usually slow with high quality ammo and low round count) does not give an idea of the rifle's longevity, durability or overall functionality.

The 6721 AR15 A3 is a 1/9 with a heavier barrel then a 6920 and no cutout for the grenade launcher. Also comes with a detachable carry handle that sits on rails. It weighs 7.3lbs vs the 6.95lbs on the 6920. That weight difference doesnt bother me, im used to carrying AKs and FALs. I originally wanted the 6920 but couldnt pass up the 6721 for its price and so far i haven't had any real problems with heavy bullets. There is an occasional flyer but grouping is still good.

What i do is often buy police trade ins. This Colt was a state police rifle (forget what state. I think Pa). They are not shiny nor pretty (scratches mainly) but the internals are hardly used. These rifles mainly ride in a trunk. Infect most of my main carry guns are police trades
 
Last edited:
A gentleman that recently joined the board, Matthew Courtney, is running a comparison test between a Sport and a Colt that you may be interested in. He does carbine courses and is using these rifles in his courses so we should see high round counts. There is more info in a thread I started, titled M&P 15 Sport Performance. I was copying Matthew's data from another board and posting it here for those interested, but Matthew has since joined and will probably keep us updated.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p15-rifle/255812-m-p-15-sport-performance.html
 
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