Newly acquired 25-2 is in Long Colt only? ***?

[steelslaver]

You could also have a 44 special or non recessed 357 cylinder reamed to 45 colt and fitted. 41 and 44 mag cylinders are to long forward, as are the 25-5 and later colts. Any cylinder for rimmed cases means they are about .035 longer to the rear than a ACP cylinder, so either the frame lug needs filed back that much or a relief cut needs to be made on back OD of cylinder to clearance the ACP frame lug.

I have made a few ACP guns into colts

 

[shil]

With so much use of the term "Long Colt", maybe it was chambered for "Short Colt"......

.45 Schofield? I have seen .45 Colt cartridges headstamped as such but were of the shorter "Schofield" or "Government" length. Technically a "Short Colt"?

 

[StrawHat]

…Not doing the letter. It's $100 bucks for a "letter of authenticity" which only signs off on what info YOU send….what good is that when you need info. Then you can use that letter to do a "deep dive" for more…….and more money. The "historical society" sounds like fleecing to me. I'm out…

It took me a while to find a copy of a letter from the factory. This one for a Model 25-2 that had the model 1950 barrel stamp.

(Tap on the photo to enlarge it.)

Kevin

 

[bill1917]

I have asked this before and still don't have an answer. S&W makes the Governor which will take 410 shotshells as well as 45 ACP and 45 Colt. If they can do this why not an N frame that will take both 45 rounds?

 

[Muley Gil]

It took me a while to find a copy of a letter from the factory. This one for a Model 25-2 that had the most amped barrel.

(Tap on the photo to enlarge it.)

Kevin

That's kinda neat that it shipped with smooth targets.

 

[Muley Gil]

I have asked this before and still don't have an answer. S&W makes the Governor which will take 410 shotshells as well as 45 ACP and 45 Colt. If they can do this why not an N frame that will take both 45 rounds?

I've never handled a Governor, but from reading the factory description, you have to use either full moon clips or the two (2) round clips when shooting the .45 ACP cartridge. That would indicate that the cylinder is cut with an outside rim that allows the .45 Colt and .410 shells to headspace properly, while the clips fit inside a cutaway.

Several machinists will do this procedure to a .45 Colt cylinder to allow the use of .45 ACP cartridges.

 

[murphydog]

I have asked this before and still don't have an answer. S&W makes the Governor which will take 410 shotshells as well as 45 ACP and 45 Colt. If they can do this why not an N frame that will take both 45 rounds?

Well, I am not a gunsmith but here goes:

A cylinder can be made to use both .45 ACP and Colt in the same gun (Ruger does it). But the former headspaces on the case mouth and needs clips, and the latter on the rim. I would guess accuracy with .45 ACP in a Colt cylinder may be indifferent due to the lack of appropriate chamber shoulders. Probably no one with a Governor worries about target-level accuracy.

Also, as noted above and elsewhere, an N frame ACP-length cylinder will chamber a short to normal length .45 Colt but not longer rounds with heavier bullets. Obviously the Governor doesn't have that restriction. So perhaps S & W could make a dual-round N frame but wants to avoid the complaints of " my 300 gr .45 Colts won't chamber". This is just speculation.

 

[Muley Gil]

Well, I am not a gunsmith but here goes:

A cylinder can be made to use both .45 ACP and Colt in the same gun (Ruger does it). But the former headspaces on the case mouth and needs clips, and the latter on the rim. I would guess accuracy with .45 ACP in a Colt cylinder may be indifferent due to the lack of appropriate chamber shoulders. Probably no one with a Governor worries about target-level accuracy.

Also, as noted above and elsewhere, an N frame ACP-length cylinder will chamber a short to normal length .45 Colt but not longer rounds with heavier bullets. Obviously the Governor doesn't have that restriction. So perhaps S & W could make a dual-round N frame but wants to avoid the complaints of " my 300 gr .45 Colts won't chamber". This is just speculation.

A .45 ACP round in a revolver can either head space on the case mouth OR on the moon clip. The early Colt 1917s used only the half moon clips for headspace.

See my post above yours. Most folks on this forum that have had their M25-5 cylinders modified to also use ACP rounds in full moon clips report good accuracy with both cartridges.

 

[StrawHat]

I have asked this before and still don't have an answer. S&W makes the Governor which will take 410 shotshells as well as 45 ACP and 45 Colt. If they can do this why not an N frame that will take both 45 rounds?

S&W made exactly one N frame revolver that fired both cartridges from one cylinder. I linked to it in post 31.

Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

That's kinda neat that it shipped with smooth targets.

It is. But, not my revolver, I just found the image of the letter to use on this thread.

Kevin

 

[murphydog]

A .45 ACP round in a revolver can either head space on the case mouth OR on the moon clip. The early Colt 1917s used only the half moon clips for headspace.

See my post above yours. Most folks on this forum that have had their M25-5 cylinders modified to also use ACP rounds in full moon clips report good accuracy with both cartridges.

Thanks, what I meant to write was case mouth 'or' clips as you noted. Is the headspace the same for a .45 ACP moon clip and a .45 Colt?

 

[Muley Gil]

Thanks, what I meant to write was case mouth 'or' clips as you noted. Is the headspace the same for a .45 ACP moon clip and a .45 Colt?

Sure. Headspace on a revolver is that measurement between the case head and the recoil shield.

Excess headspace would occur if someone deepened the chambers on a .45 ACP cylinder to accept a .45 Colt cartridge so that Colt case head rested on the rear face of the cylinder.

 

[Guppus]

Thanks for all the help here. Instead of fitting another cylinder I'm going to find a nice old S&W .45 ACP example that needs a new home.

 

[steelslaver]

How to have a cylinder that fires 45 colt and acp

The full moon clip that holds the 45acp sits in the recessed area, the out side edge of 45 colts rest on the outer ledge and holds their head space correctly.

I have made a few of these cylinders and they work. You do lose a bit of velocity with light ac bullets as the base of bullet clears the case before the nose hits the .452 throats. But, not all that much. I only run one gun with a cylinder set up this way. This highly modified 1917.

 

[StrawHat]

Yeah, that certainly makes sense. Hopefully they kept good records of anomalies in the late 70's and mine comes back as factory 45 Colt.

Has your letter come back yet?

Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

"…

Yeah, that certainly makes sense. Hopefully they kept good records of anomalies in the late 70's and mine comes back as factory 45 Colt.

Has your letter come back yet?

Kevin…"

Hello Guppus,

Heard anything yet?

Kevin

 

[Model19man]

Not to steal the thread but i recently acquired a 25-2 and it has a smooth case colored trigger. Is this correct?

The target hammer and trigger were options. So yes a smooth trigger would be standard if you don't want to pay for the better, wider one.

 

[Muley Gil]

The target hammer and trigger were options. So yes a smooth trigger would be standard if you don't want to pay for the better, wider one.

Later M25-2s came standard with the wide, serrated trigger and target hammer. Earlier M25-2s came standard with the narrow (.265") serrated trigger and semi-target hammer.

I, and many others, prefer smooth triggers for double action shooting.

 

[StrawHat]

Later M25-2s came standard with the wide, serrated trigger and target hammer. Earlier M25-2s came standard with the narrow (.265") serrated trigger and semi-target hammer.

I, and many others, prefer smooth triggers for double action shooting.

This is the trigger on my 6.5" Model 25-2,

This is the trigger on my 4.25" Model 25-2

Somewhere I have a wide smooth trigger but do not recall which revolver it is. I very much like the smooth trigger for all applications.

Kevin