CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Saw a 14.5" barrel 11-87 for sale says it is an NFA gun that requires a tax stamp and a form 4 transfer. Can someone please translate for me what this means.
NFA gun
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Andy Griffith
Member
You have to go through the same process you would as if you were buying a machine gun, suppressor, etc.
It falls under the 1934 GCA.
It falls under the 1934 GCA.
Short-barreled shotgun, requires a tax stamp. I'm no expert on this, but some SBS only require a $5 tax stamp as an "any other weapon". I believe, if they were manufactured that way as opposed to being converted "in the field"
Bob R
US Veteran
This may help.
ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Firearms
As an observation I see where they have changed their motto some.
No longer is it, Always Think Forfeiture,
Now it is,
At The Frontline Against Violent Crime.
bob
eta:
Translated loosely means it will cost more money and take a few months to get the OK.
ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Firearms
As an observation I see where they have changed their motto some.
No longer is it, Always Think Forfeiture,
Now it is,
At The Frontline Against Violent Crime.
bob
eta:
Translated loosely means it will cost more money and take a few months to get the OK.
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kscardsfan
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No, for it to be classified as an "any other weapon" (AOW) short barrel it had to be originally manufactured with a pistol grip, not a full stock, at the factory. The serbu's are probably the most famous for this, and they are a hoot to handle 
Grog
Member
Yep, you can only get a $5 stamped "AOW" if it has NEVER ever had a buttstock attached. There was a cop where I used to live who got a $5 stamp gun and proceeded to put a full stock on there
Not sure if the feds ever found out but I hope he's never in a shooting with it (it might raise someone's eyebrows enough to check such things). Personally, on a shotgun which can accept a pistol grip, I would just make it a regular SBS (short barrel shotgun) so I could switch betweenn a full stock (99% of the time) bs the pistol grip (the 1% I'm feeling crazy).
One day I hope to get a SBS 870. With it as simple as swapping barrels, I can do it myself and just pay the $200 to "manufacture" the SBS. I would have to engrave my name and info on the receiver though.
Oh, I seem to remember that while the folks with a SBS or SBR have to send a form when they are planning on taking over state lines, that maybe the AOW folks don't? (take that with a huge grain of salt).
Alpo
Member
There are various ATF forms you have to fill out to register and transfer guns that fall under the rules of the National Firearms Act (NFA). To make it easy, they are just numbered.
Form 1 is for "Making a firearm". That's when you take your legal 11-87, with the "18 inch or longer" barrel, and cut it to less than 18 inches. You are "making" a "Short Barreled Shotgun", and you need permission. You fill out the Form 1 and send it in, along with your money, and they eventually put a tax stamp on it and send it back. Then you can take the hacksaw to your barrel.
A Form 4 is for transferring an NFA item. If I own the 11-47 SBS, and you want to buy it, you fill out the Form 4 and send it in, along with the money. Again, they eventually put a tax stamp on it and send it back, whereupon I give you the gun.
A Form 5 is for when the owner of the NFA item dies and you inherit it. It's a "tax exempt transfer". It still has to be registered in your name, but you don't have to pay the transfer tax.
There are other forms, but those three are the ones most people will be in contact with.
Form 1 is for "Making a firearm". That's when you take your legal 11-87, with the "18 inch or longer" barrel, and cut it to less than 18 inches. You are "making" a "Short Barreled Shotgun", and you need permission. You fill out the Form 1 and send it in, along with your money, and they eventually put a tax stamp on it and send it back. Then you can take the hacksaw to your barrel.
A Form 4 is for transferring an NFA item. If I own the 11-47 SBS, and you want to buy it, you fill out the Form 4 and send it in, along with the money. Again, they eventually put a tax stamp on it and send it back, whereupon I give you the gun.
A Form 5 is for when the owner of the NFA item dies and you inherit it. It's a "tax exempt transfer". It still has to be registered in your name, but you don't have to pay the transfer tax.
There are other forms, but those three are the ones most people will be in contact with.
JcMack
Member
I can relate to wanting one of these gun types. The 4" shorter barrel makes a big difference in handling for it's intended purpose. The PIA factor for me has always ruled it out. I saw a guy on "COPS" the other night get stopped and he had a cutoff .410 single shot in his ride. The whole gun was maybe 13" with a 6" barrel. The whole thing was homemade but amazingly well crafted. Barrel end was finished nicely as were fore end and stock nub. An elastic shell holder was wrapped around the gun just in front of the trigger. It held 3 spare shells. I thought this guy was missing his calling as crook. If you could make this config. legally as a pistol, you'd sell a ton of them. It might have been an O/U, can't remember.
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NFrameFred
Member
The transfer stamp is cheap ($5 when I had mine) and not the tariff required for a full auto weapon; the paperwork is basically the same and expect several months of waiting before you can even think of taking possession of the gun. I was told when I had an approved short barreled shotgun (Ithaca 37 'stakeout' w/12" bbl) for a time several years back that the Feds look at it just like a machine gun in that they can come in and demand to see it/inspect it anytime they please just 'cause they want to (at least that's what the local CLEO who signed off on the application told me).[also, since it's registered to you it must always be in your 'control & possession' . . . don't loan it to your mother-in-law]
The thing to watch out for is being gouged by a dealer who wants to charge an exorbitant amount for doing "Class III paper work" when, in reality, you can do every bit of that yourself since you're basically dealing directly with BATFE on these. I had a guy try to do just that until I spoke with someone who informed me that you do not have to go through a Class III dealer to make such a purchase. I bought mine from an individual who legally owned it and submitted all the requisite forms and documentation myself, and received the official notice when the BATF (at the time) said I could legally take possession since they had transferred the paperwork to me. As I recall it took about 4 months at that time, but I could be off - several years ago. Sold it the same way a few years later.
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Is the 11-87 located in your state? If so, the transfer can be done without involving an SOT dealer. If not, the seller has to transfer the shotgun to a dealer in your state, then once that transfer has completed, you can then have your dealer start the transfer to you.
Two form 4's have to be filled out, then signed by the chief law enforcement officer in your county. Once that has been done, both form 4's, with your photos attached, 2 fingerprint cards, one certificate of compliance and a check for $200 would be mailed to ATF. Time for the ATF to approve takes 3-4 months.
There is a few more details involved, but that gives you an overview. I have done several personal and dealer transfers, so feel free to PM me anytime.
Two form 4's have to be filled out, then signed by the chief law enforcement officer in your county. Once that has been done, both form 4's, with your photos attached, 2 fingerprint cards, one certificate of compliance and a check for $200 would be mailed to ATF. Time for the ATF to approve takes 3-4 months.
There is a few more details involved, but that gives you an overview. I have done several personal and dealer transfers, so feel free to PM me anytime.
OP
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
fugetaboutit!!!!!!! 
truckemup97
Member
I just read the "Application to Make and Register a Firearm." Question "i" asks, "State why you intend to make firearm." Is "Cuz I want to" a viable answer?
Andy Griffith
Member
I believe the answer is "all legal purposes."
Alpo
Member
The answer I gave, which is the same I've used on all Form 4s to answer this question, "I (Name of Transferee) have a reasonable necessity to possess the machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device described on this application for the following reason(s)", is GUN COLLECTOR. That answer was recommended to me by my gun-pusher, and they've accepted it every time.
NFrameFred
Member
Just to be clear, there is a difference in manufacturing (modifying) one and buying one that has been built on a receiver 'in the white' with the features from the git-go. Known as a Class II 'any other weapon'.
You can get into some thorny territory as I recall if you make a short barreld rifle or shotgun and don't have a "manufacturers" license.
The Ithaca I had was made by a specialty company, custom gun, that used a new never-before-assembled on a butt stock or with a longer barrel "in the white" receiver, and they had a license to manufacture such.
You can get into some thorny territory as I recall if you make a short barreld rifle or shotgun and don't have a "manufacturers" license.
The Ithaca I had was made by a specialty company, custom gun, that used a new never-before-assembled on a butt stock or with a longer barrel "in the white" receiver, and they had a license to manufacture such.
sheriffoconee
Member
Cajunlawyer, If I am not mistaken, the LSP gets involved in some sorta Louisiana State approval before you can take possession of a NFA weapon in LA....
These folks seem to have a good reputation up in Red Stick, they might be able to walk you thru it....
Red Jacket Firearms
A good dealer should help get most of the dirty work done for you...
These folks seem to have a good reputation up in Red Stick, they might be able to walk you thru it....
Red Jacket Firearms
A good dealer should help get most of the dirty work done for you...
The tax stamp for an individual to make an AOW is $200. Thereafter it can be transferred for $5. A shotgun can not be registered as an AOW, if it left the factory with a buttstock. For the individual there is no advantage to making an AOW. If you later wanted to add a buttstock it would have to be re-registered as an SBS.
Anyone who can own NFA weapons can make an SBS or SBR after approval of their form 1. The tax stamp is $200.
If you are wanting to make an NFA weapon that isn't legal the NFA branch of ATF will not approve the application. An example would be a machinegun. newly manufactured machineguns are not legal for anyone except the government or LE agencies. Also if the weapon you wish to make is not legal in your state your application wont be approved. Certain jurisdictions allow some NFA items but not others.
ChattanoogaPhil
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I'm doing paperwork for a silencer this morning. Found this useful. Step by Step for each box on the forms.
http://www.silencerresearch.com/Silencerguide.pdf
http://www.silencerresearch.com/Silencerguide.pdf
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