rewster
Member
I hate to admit this but I've never reloaded nickel cases and don't really know if I should be doing anything differently from brass cases.
Is there anything special ?
Is there anything special ?
Nickel Cases
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rewster
Member
I hate to admit this but I've never reloaded nickel cases and don't really know if I should be doing anything differently from brass cases.
Is there anything special ?
Is there anything special ?
Amici
Member
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Nothing special that I am aware of. I load them with the plain brass cases and have no problems.
There are those who say that nickel cases are more brittle. Perhaps, but I haven't seen it.
What I have seen is them coming clean MUCH faster than brass cases do.
There are those who say that nickel cases are more brittle. Perhaps, but I haven't seen it.
What I have seen is them coming clean MUCH faster than brass cases do.
Forester
Member
The search function is your friend.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5701039...601038262#4601038262
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5701039...601038262#4601038262
Sara Noh
Member
Nickle cases are more brittle and their useful life is shorter than brass cases. The more important reason that I do not reload nickel case is that the nickle plating has microscopic pores that can hold grit that will scratch your dies. The grit gets imbedded and tumbling will not remove it. I scratched a carbide sizing die and trashed all nickle plated cases after that experience.
OP
rewster
Member
Thanks guys and gal ! Very helpful. Especially the thread from 2007.
I have never had a problem with them.
I bought a lot of "once fired" nickel 9mm's,38spl's&45acp's when I started reloading. Have noticed the 38's seem to have a shorter working life but don't see it with 9's or 45's. Since then have gotten into 38 super and all that brass is nickel. My loads tend to be on the mild side.
Reason I chose the nickel is that the range has a grass surface and nickel was easier to see (except in the morning if there's a heavy dew!).
Kevin
Reason I chose the nickel is that the range has a grass surface and nickel was easier to see (except in the morning if there's a heavy dew!).
Kevin
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
I gave up reloading nickel cases a few years ago because my own experience was they split more often than plain brass cases. However I have big bucket full of 38 Special brass that I have collected over the years, and probably 40% of it or so is nickel plated. I ain't gonna throw it all away, I just pay extra attention when loading the nickel plated stuff. Found a split one when I was loading up 200 rounds the other day.
It is my belief that the problem with nickel plated brass comes about when the plating baths are not properly maintained. There is a phenomenon known as Hydrogen Embrittlement in which minute amounts of hydrogen are infused into microscopic surface cracks of a metal. If the metal is stressed repeatedly, as in firing and reloading cases, the hydrogen expands and exerts pressure on the cracks, enlarging them. This is not a blanket condemnation of all nickel plated brass, just that which has been plated with poorly maintained plating baths. The hydrogen gets into the body of the brass, and causes it to split. The nickel plating is a very thin layer and splits as the brass underneath it gives way.
To answer the original question, I don't treat nickel plated brass any differently when I reload it, I just inspect it closer because of my experience with its failure rate.
I gave up reloading nickel cases a few years ago because my own experience was they split more often than plain brass cases. However I have big bucket full of 38 Special brass that I have collected over the years, and probably 40% of it or so is nickel plated. I ain't gonna throw it all away, I just pay extra attention when loading the nickel plated stuff. Found a split one when I was loading up 200 rounds the other day.
It is my belief that the problem with nickel plated brass comes about when the plating baths are not properly maintained. There is a phenomenon known as Hydrogen Embrittlement in which minute amounts of hydrogen are infused into microscopic surface cracks of a metal. If the metal is stressed repeatedly, as in firing and reloading cases, the hydrogen expands and exerts pressure on the cracks, enlarging them. This is not a blanket condemnation of all nickel plated brass, just that which has been plated with poorly maintained plating baths. The hydrogen gets into the body of the brass, and causes it to split. The nickel plating is a very thin layer and splits as the brass underneath it gives way.
To answer the original question, I don't treat nickel plated brass any differently when I reload it, I just inspect it closer because of my experience with its failure rate.
john traveler
Member
Hydrogen embrittlement is the correct term and it appplies not only to nickle-plated cartridge cases and poorly maintained plating baths. It applies to all electochemical plating baths because the free hydrogen is part of the plating solution itself, as is free oxygen.
Industrial plating processes for strength-critical parts always specify baking the parts for several hundred degrees in an oven for a few hours after the plating. An example of this is the landing gear on aircraft. The parts are hard chromium plated for corrosion resistance and long term durability. Without the baking process to relive entrapped hydrogen gas, the plated surface tends to crack, and become focal points for starting corrosion. Not something you want on a high stress, flight-critical aerospace component.
The real reason for plated brass being not as durable as unplated brass is that the cartridge cases are pickled in acid solution (cleaned) before plating. The pickling thins the brass and in some cases, weakens it.
Dirt imbedded in brass cartridges is nothing new, and sometimes this dirt will imbed in carbide sizing dies. Actually, the dirt or grit does NOT imbed in the sizing die, but creates a smear of cartridge case material that will gouge at all subsequent cases, marring them. Only powdered diamond dust is hard enough to cut tungsten carbide sizes.
The trick to preventing case damage is to remove the sizing die and polish them using a strip of fine emery or silicon carbide abrasive cloth. The abrasive removes the brass/dirt smear without harming the tungsten carbide. We had to do this routinely in maintaining drawing dies in the production shop.
Industrial plating processes for strength-critical parts always specify baking the parts for several hundred degrees in an oven for a few hours after the plating. An example of this is the landing gear on aircraft. The parts are hard chromium plated for corrosion resistance and long term durability. Without the baking process to relive entrapped hydrogen gas, the plated surface tends to crack, and become focal points for starting corrosion. Not something you want on a high stress, flight-critical aerospace component.
The real reason for plated brass being not as durable as unplated brass is that the cartridge cases are pickled in acid solution (cleaned) before plating. The pickling thins the brass and in some cases, weakens it.
Dirt imbedded in brass cartridges is nothing new, and sometimes this dirt will imbed in carbide sizing dies. Actually, the dirt or grit does NOT imbed in the sizing die, but creates a smear of cartridge case material that will gouge at all subsequent cases, marring them. Only powdered diamond dust is hard enough to cut tungsten carbide sizes.
The trick to preventing case damage is to remove the sizing die and polish them using a strip of fine emery or silicon carbide abrasive cloth. The abrasive removes the brass/dirt smear without harming the tungsten carbide. We had to do this routinely in maintaining drawing dies in the production shop.
I like nickel plated cases for reloading even though their life is somewhat shorter than brass cases. Normally they will develop a tiny crack at the case mouth after 3-4 reloadings, but this can usually be avoided by trimming the cases before their first reloading. That helps extend their useful life considerably.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
How else are you going to come up with a duplicate Lone Ranger load if you don't use nickel cases? I mean, it's got to be "silver" cases for those "silver" bullets. Right? Let's get real here.
Nickel plated cases and lead bullets is about as close as we are going to be able to get to the original, in my opinion.
Being more brittle will only show up if you work the case mouth for crimping. If you use them for target type loads in, say, 38spl and seat the bullet deep(.030" of the last driving band outside of the case) and just close the case mouth back to straight you most likely will not see any difference. I suppose in most auto rounds the same would hold true.
Load heavy rounds that need a firm roll crimp and those babies are going to split much faster than brass.
That being said, you will still get a bunch of reloads out of those nickel cases, a bunch.
And the good part about it, you will look cool doing it, just like the Lone Ranger!
Nickel plated cases and lead bullets is about as close as we are going to be able to get to the original, in my opinion.
Being more brittle will only show up if you work the case mouth for crimping. If you use them for target type loads in, say, 38spl and seat the bullet deep(.030" of the last driving band outside of the case) and just close the case mouth back to straight you most likely will not see any difference. I suppose in most auto rounds the same would hold true.
Load heavy rounds that need a firm roll crimp and those babies are going to split much faster than brass.
That being said, you will still get a bunch of reloads out of those nickel cases, a bunch.
And the good part about it, you will look cool doing it, just like the Lone Ranger!
Sgt Preston
Member
Sgt Preston here. I load them all the time without any problems. They are simply mixed in wityh my other brass. I DO however inspect each & every case after cleaning & before loading. I use a lighted bench magnifier to inspect the mouth of each case for splits, the primer area for flattened primers or distorted bores, I inspect the ejection groove for deep cuts & scratches & finally check the head stamp to make sure they are all the same caliber. It takes a little time, but it minimizes problems. If something just doesn't look right, I throw the case away. Hope this helps. Sgt Preston USMC LLA
OP
rewster
Member
That's what I love about this place. You learn something new every day. I never realized the Lone Range had silver cases
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Glad to add to your ejumacation, Rog!
Go to google.com and paste this in the box: "Clayton Moore original Lone Ranger silver bullet"
Make sure to include the " marks. The first item on the page is an auction for one of the bullets. $200 for just one! Must be factory ammo!
OP
rewster
Member
Skip !! It's a .38 !! What the .... ?
The Lone Ranger had Colt .45's !!!!
The .38's would cost a lot less in this economy !!
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Roger,
I noticed that too! WAZZUPWITDAT?
Just goes to prove nothing is for real in the Hollywood!
I noticed that too! WAZZUPWITDAT?
Just goes to prove nothing is for real in the Hollywood!
mkk41
US Veteran
I especially like nickel plated cases for my 45 Colt and 45/70 black powder loads. That's how I differentiate the BP loads from smokeless , which get put up in plain brass. They clean up much easier.
I just got 100 rds of nickeled 30-40 Krag brass. These will be loaded with smokeless and look beautiful. Original USGI Krag and 45/70 ammo had tinned cases for some years , especially stuff destined for humid climates.
I just got 100 rds of nickeled 30-40 Krag brass. These will be loaded with smokeless and look beautiful. Original USGI Krag and 45/70 ammo had tinned cases for some years , especially stuff destined for humid climates.
I love nickel cases and prefer them over standard brass when ordering new or buying once fired.
So far I have not been able to establish a trend that nickel splits before strait brass. Maybe in 20-30 more years I will have a better opinion
So far I have not been able to establish a trend that nickel splits before strait brass. Maybe in 20-30 more years I will have a better opinion
