NO 5 MK I .303 Jungle Carbine

[Jack Flash]

... Picked up a bunch of Iraqi 303 in the 80's. I thought the ammo was Greek...

I bought a boat load of that stuff about the same time. The dealer told me it was Egyptian.

One box showed some obvious water damage. There were a high percentage of hang-fires and non-fires from that box. However, all but one of the non-fires went off on the second try. (Neat feature of the LE that you don't have to open the bolt to try again!) None of the other boxes had any problems, and these were really pretty accurate out of my No. 1 Mk III*. I still have some. I think I got them for less than 3 cents a round.

Only later did I discover that they were Iraqi made, in 1956, IIRC. (But back when I bought them, Iraq was, if not our "friend", at least they were the enemy of our enemy). By the way, the head stamp looks like "1907" but that corresponds to our "1956". (See pictures below: what looks like "1909" is "1959"). Here is a link that shows our Western numbers compared to Arabic: Arabic Numbers

 

[LVSteve]

Iraqi contract No1MkIII SMLE rifles made by BSA in the 1920's are marked on the knox form of the bbl with a Triangle and what appears to be a 2 or a backwards S inside of it. The symbol is for Iraq ownership.

I don't know in what proper language or wording the symbol actually says, But it will be found on all of the Iraq contract SMLE's
Perhaps the triangle on the ammunition denotes Iraqi mfg also. Just a guess of course.

That symbol is known as a Jeem. I have seen it on Mausers, too.

 

[LVSteve]

I have an un-issued Long Branch (Canadian). Never shot it as I had a couple of No 4's (long gone) and a 1903 Citadel Martini. Picked up a bunch of Iraqi 303 in the 80's. I thought the ammo was Greek, because of the "Delta" among the head stamp, turns out that triangle is a Farsi numeral. Many 303's have a "generous" chamber. If you reload with full length sizing, you will probably have head separation starting at 3 or 4 reloads (stuck case removers are all over, and mine for 30-06 works well). If you're used to 223 Rem or 30-30 they really kick, if you shoot hot 45-70's, then they seem pretty mild. Recoil is kind of subjective. Ivan

This is why you don't FL resize with .303. Best thing is to use the O-ring trick on first firing to push the shoulder forward while avoiding stretch near the base. After that neck resize and use that ammo ONLY in that particular rifle. This greatly increases the number of possible reloads. There are several excellent threads about this on Gunboards.

 

[LVSteve]

I guess I lucked out because my magazine is numbered.

James

That was usually done by a unit armourer. No.5 mags were not numbered at the factory AFAIK. The same applies to many wartime production No.4 rifles.

 

[GaryS]

I have a variety of .303. HXP, Pakistani, commercial, and a small amount of Royal Laboratory. Headstamps of the .303 British Calibre Service Ammunition Round has some good information on headstamps.

I find my No1 Mk III the most enjoyable to fire, but all of them are pleasant and don't have particular harsh recoil. Again, I haven't yet fired the No5, so but my full length guns are OK.

 

[Jack Flash]

I have heard such bad reports about Pakistani .303 that I never bought any. Has anyone had good results with it?

On the other hand, I bought a lot of Greek HXP headstamped .303, since it is boxer primed and non-corrosive.

 

[GaryS]

The Pakistani stuff has been good range fodder for me. It's smelly as hell when you fire it and it's corrosive, but I've found it reliable and accurate. I have a bunch of HXP as well, but haven't shot it as much. If it's boxer primed, I'll have to remember to save the brass. I don't reload, but I'm sure someone who dos will take it off my hands.

I have heard such bad reports about Pakistani .303 that I never bought any. Has anyone had good results with it?

On the other hand, I bought a lot of Greek HXP headstamped .303, since it is boxer primed and non-corrosive.

 

[Arik]

I have a few Enfields including a No5 jungle carbine. The only REAL jungle carbine. Nice guns.

The wondering zero is a half myth. It from not cleaning the cosmoline out of the wood. When doing lots of shooting the wood and cosmoline would swell up and push on the barrel.
I never thought they kicked all that bad but I'm used to shooting Mosin carbines.

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[2152hq]

The Pakistani Ordnance Factory 303 ammo had quite a bad reputation back when it hit the surplus market. Lot's of click/bang ignitions and plain duds. Strange odor in the gunsmoke not normally associated w/gunsmoke.
The 'POF' marking on the boxes got lots of interpretations,,Pride of Frankenstein,, things like that. Some I can't print here.

But with in the large mountain of that stuff that must have been imported was some decent firing ammo. Some people reported reliable ignition and decent accuracy.
The price was cheap that's for sure.
Something we're not likely to see on 303 ammo again soon.

Greek mfg HXP headstamp is boxer primed and takes standard LR primers. I've reloaded a lot of it and it is very strong brass.
I've used it to reform to 6.5x53R also and it works very well w/o cracking in the process.

It's very good 303 brass.

 

[Texas Star]

The Pakistani Ordnance Factory 303 ammo had quite a bad reputation back when it hit the surplus market. Lot's of click/bang ignitions and plain duds. Strange odor in the gunsmoke not normally associated w/gunsmoke.
The 'POF' marking on the boxes got lots of interpretations,,Pride of Frankenstein,, things like that. Some I can't print here.

But with in the large mountain of that stuff that must have been imported was some decent firing ammo. Some people reported reliable ignition and decent accuracy.
The price was cheap that's for sure.
Something we're not likely to see on 303 ammo again soon.

Greek mfg HXP headstamp is boxer primed and takes standard LR primers. I've reloaded a lot of it and it is very strong brass.
I've used it to reform to 6.5x53R also and it works very well w/o cracking in the process.

It's very good 303 brass.

What's that for, Dutch or Romanian Mannlichers?

 

[Arik]

I always wanted to get a beater Enfield and have it converted to 7.62x54

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[LVSteve]

Sounds like 6.5x53.5R Daudeteau. You can also reform 7.62x54R to that round according to Midway.

 

[Texas Star]

I always wanted to get a beater Enfield and have it converted to 7.62x54

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I wouldn't. The pressures would be too high. And what would you really achieve? The .303 is powerful enough for me to use with iron sights. I can't see well enough to use irons beyond the .303's adequate power range. More distant targets should be engaged with a 'scope-sighted .30-06 or similar cartridge.

 

[Arik]

I wouldn't. The pressures would be too high. And what would you really achieve? The .303 is powerful enough for me to use with iron sights. I can't see well enough to use irons beyond the .303's adequate power range. More distant targets should be engaged with a 'scope-sighted .30-06 or similar cartridge.

I don't think that the 7.62x54 is that much more powerful than the 303. They are almost identical in size, shape and rim but the biggest achievement is that I can buy surplus 440 round cans of 7.62x54 all day long for under $90. Can't do that with 303 anymore. I now pay $15 a box of 303

And why do people assume the 303 is like a 30-30? Their range is no worse nor better than 8 mm Mauser or 30-06

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[Arik]

Double post



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[2152hq]

What's that for, Dutch or Romanian Mannlichers?

Yes the Dutch (and Romainian) military round.

I have a full stock sporter w/DST built on a Romanian bbl'd action and stupidly sold my Dutch M95 military rifle some time ago.

The sporter was a WW2 bring-back by a GI. Bought it at a gun show, actually traded a Western Field 12ga SxS I had just bought a couple tables prior for $130. I think I gave an extra $25 along with the shotgun for the sporter.
I use my 6.5 Mannlicher Schoenauer dies for forming and reloading the round.
A lifetime supply of pulled Carcano & Arisaka FMJ bullets keeps me shooting ($1/box 100),,yes they were a while ago, but like I said in another thread, buy bullets whenever you see them cheap. Even if you don't have a gun in that caliber at the moment.
The Carcano 6.5's can run a bit larger than .264d but the groove diameters of this and most all European made 6.5's are in the .267/268 range anyway, M/S's included.

I picked up a very clean Dutch M95 action (Steyr) and am thinking about building another sporter to the British style on it. 303 or 6.5x53R.
Another Dutch service rifle is always on the list.

 

[GaryS]

All of the .30 caliber military cartridges of WWI and WWII vintage are pretty close in performance. While the .303 originally started out as a black powder round, it was pretty successful as a smokeless powder round. There are a lot of German, Italian, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese soldiers who would agree if they weren't dead.

Sadly, I agree about the availability and price of .303. A few months ago I bought some HXP at a really good price. The seller had sold off his rifles in that caliber and wanted to get rid of the ammo. I considered myself lucky to hit the classifieds on that forum at the right time because it wasn't going to sit long. Right now I've put in an offer on some 7.5 Swiss at $0.50/round. That's as hard to find as .303 and GP11 is going for more money.

I don't think that the 7.62x54 is that much more powerful than the 303. They are almost identical in size, shape and rim but the biggest achievement is that I can buy surplus 440 round cans of 7.62x54 all day long for under $90. Can't do that with 303 anymore. I now pay $15 a box of 303

And why do people assume the 303 is like a 30-30? Their range is no worse nor better than 8 mm Mauser or 30-06

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[Cyrano]

Sigp220.45: That's not a recoil enhancer, it's a recoil concentrator. The recoil would feel less if spread out over a broader area, like the area of the entire butt. The real recoil enhancer is at the other end; the flash hider has this huge frontal area that gives the escaping gas plenty to push against.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

If anyone has a bayonet that is in good condition or better yet unused, let me know.

James

 

[LVSteve]

If anyone has a bayonet that is in good condition or better yet unused, let me know.

James

That's funny. Bayonets for a No.5 are worth nearly as much as the rifle. I decided I could live without one.