no carbide rifle dies?

[MWAG]

why is it that bottle neck rifle dies don't come in carbide? i have yet to load any bottle neck brass. i'm collecting all the particulars now, dies, bullets, primers. i already have lots of 223 and 30/30 brass. from what i've read it seems that bottle neck cartridge loading is not quite as simple as straight wall pistol loading.

 

[Ron H.]

Sir, Dillon used to have carbide dies for some bottleneck rifle cases, and I'd assume they still do. Probably other die companies as well.

IMHO there's not much point in them since you still have to lube the cases for resizing.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[38-44HD45]

Carbide sizing dies for bottleneck rifle cases are more resistant to scratching and will usually last longer than standard steel dies. They are a little slicker, too, so a bit less lube is required. I have them for .223 and .308 in my Dillon 550 setup, and I like them, but lube is still a necessary evil.

 

[matsu]

most carbide dies that are in straight wall cases are simple rings in sizer die some like 9mm have to be bigger ring tapered case a rifle die tales bigger still which increase the cost 9mm, 223. and 308 cost to make

 

[OKFC05]

it seems that bottle neck cartridge loading is not quite as simple as straight wall pistol loading.

You said a mouthfull.
Botttle neck = more steps.

 

[tops]

With all the advances that science has made it seems to me that there should be a way to size rifle cases without using messy lubricant. Maybe some smart scientist will get his priorities in order and invent something. Maybe obama can change it. Larry

 

[PDL]

With all the advances that science has made it seems to me that there should be a way to size rifle cases without using messy lubricant. Maybe some smart scientist will get his priorities in order and invent something. Maybe obama can change it. Larry

I don't know how long ago you were refering to, but the newer spray lanolin/alcohol etc. and the dry graphite neck lubes aren't anywhere near as messy as thing used to be.

 

[Smithhound]

As I understand it from 30 years of reloading, that has been tried with varying degrees of success. The basic problem is surface area friction or 'surface tension'. If you look at a straight wall pistol case, it is a simple thing, a ring of low friction material sizes it down to the desired diameter. No problem.
But when you take a rifle case with any kind of taper and add a shoulder and long neck you create a surface that presses into the die under the pressure of the ram. Surface tension is caused by the very thing we are trying to do: take a case that has been formed into a mirror image of our chamber which is over sized compared to a fully resized case and reduce it back down to somwhere near minimal specs.
A huge amount of pressure is needed to do that.
That very pressure creates a seal, 'surface tension', that grips the case tight in the die and requires almost an equal force to 'unstick' it. Usually, without lube, the rim of the case will rip off at the shell holder before that tension can be overcome, resulting in a stuck case. That is why that very thing happens with too little lube.
It is the same principle in reverse as the camming action of a bolt action vs. a semi-auto action in a firearm. Upon firing the case expands in the chamber and creates surface tension, the powerful camming action of a bolt action rifle can turn and pull the case out while the straight line extraction efforts of the SA will sometime leave the case in the chamber, tearing off the rim.
It is physics, no way around it.
Maybe someday, some miracle low friction alloy for bottleneck dies will be developed, but we are basically stuck with it for now.
RD

 

[Reloader Fred]

Bottle neck carbide dies are generally made in two pieces, which have to be mated together. The body is made in one piece, and then the neck is made from another piece of carbide. They are then pressed into the steel die body for the complete die. This is an expensive process, and as noted, case lubricant is still required. The normal reloader will not live long enough to wear out a sizing die, with proper maintenance and attention, so carbide dies for rifle cartridges are best used by commercial reloaders.

I have carbide sizing dies for 357 Sig, 9x25 Dillon (both pistol cartridges, but bottleneck) and .308 Winchester. They won't do anything a well made steel die in the same caliber can't do.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[mkk41]

Carbide is very expensive and very difficult to work with. To make a carbide die , or even insert with the internal shape of a bottle neck cartridge would cost several hundred dollars. There would be no advantage as it would still need to be lubed.

Straight wall carbide pistol dies only have a simple ring insert about 1/4" long.

There are carbide insert neck size dies from Redding.

 

[Mack]

I don't know how long ago you were refering to, but the newer spray lanolin/alcohol etc. and the dry graphite neck lubes aren't anywhere near as messy as thing used to be.

Amen brother.

Having started with a RCBS pad and neck brush and having now progressed to the Dillon spray lube I must agree. And not just the mess but the time involved when dealing with several hundred cases todays lubes are a big plus.

m.

 

[Nathan Forrest]

I used to have RCBS dies that had a carbide button on the de-priming rod. This eliminated inside neck lubrication.

 

[dillonhelp]

Dillon indeed does offer carbide size dies for .223 and .308 Winchester. Our intent is for their use primarily by commercial loaders. They offer significantly greater life, usually good for 750,000-1,000,000 cycles before wearing out, and increased scratch resistance over steel dies.
For most loaders they are not cost effective. All Dillon rifle dies, whether steel or carbide, come standard with a cabide expander ball. this eliminates the need for inside neck lubing.