No CB caps in revolvers ?

[SW4006]

Hello all,

I like the old S&W ladysmiths, i bought recently one. Also i bought an old French weapon catalog from 1912. On the first page by the Ladysmith is written "Ne pas se servir de Caps dans les revolvers"
( Don't shoot CB or BB caps in revolvers )
I see here several post from members which have shot CB caps in the old Ladysmiths.
Is it now safe or not to shoot them in revolvers ?

 

[red9]

I see no problem shooting BB or CB caps in a Ladysmith in good condition. Modern smokeless Shorts would probably be pushing the limits. The ad you show indicates that the revolver was chambered for the LR cartridge. This information was from a dealer, not Smith & Wesson. If you look at the warning in the box lid in this thread, you will see the factory's position:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/342974-ladysmith-i-had-do.html

Bob

 

[deadin]

I think the problem with early CB and BB caps wasn't that they were too strong. More likely they were too weak and by the time they vented at the barrel/cylinder gap, the bullet might not get out of the barrel. I haven't heard of this with modern cartridges.

Also, I hope that the translation from the French where it mentions .22 long rifle says NOT to use in a Lady Smith.... (Using long rifle is what has destroyed many forcing cones in them.... )

 

[DWalt]

I too believe that the problem in shooting a BB or CB cap in a revolver would be related to its bullet not leaving the muzzle. The original Ladysmith was chambered for the .22 Long, not Long Rifle. Also, even though the Ladysmith was made after smokeless ammunition came on the market, all smokeless .22 ammunition of that time would been of the "standard velocity" type. High velocity .22s didn't come out until, I think, some time in the early 1930s. As .22 Long ammo in any form is hard to come by, especially in standard velocity, it would be best to use only standard velocity .22 Short ammunition by anyone wishing to shoot an original Ladysmith. While it may be a little difficult to find, .22 Short SV ammunition is still made and can be found. I know both CCI and Aguila still make it, and I do see it at gun shows. I have quite a large stockpile of .22 Short SV ammunition, and shoot it a lot, as the noise level from a rifle is very low. It was formerly used by Olympic Rapid Fire pistol shooters, but not today, as the Olympic rules changed, and now require .22 LR pistols. Incidentally, finding one of the old .22 Short Olympic Rapid Fire pistols would be quite a prize, as they are very seldom seen.

 

[Green Frog]

I shoot CB caps in my S&W 1st Model 2nd Issue with no problem (except being able to hit anything more than about 15 feet away!

Froggie

 

[bigolddave]

CCI makes a Minilong, which is essentially a short bullet at CB velocity, in a long/long rifle case. If you can find them, they should be just the ticket.

 

[DWalt]

Aguila also used to make a cartridge called the Kolibri, which was essentially a .22 Short bullet in a .22 Long case loaded with no powder, but I don't know if they still do. In any event, .22 Short SV will probably be easier to find than Kolibri, BB, or CB but you might have to get it over the internet unless you go to gun shows. Most stores won't stock any of these cartridges.

 

[deadin]

Incidentally, finding one of the old .22 Short Olympic Rapid Fire pistols would be quite a prize, as they are very seldom seen.

The time to have grabbed one of these was right after the rule change when they were selling quite reasonably because they weren't usable any more. Now the collectors have discovered them and the pricesare right back up there.....
Larry's Guns Ltd has a couple of Hammerli's for sale, an Olimpia Rapid Fire .22 Short ($1895.00) and a M232 in short.($1149.00)

So much for the bargains....... (Although I like the looks of that 232.)

 

[SW4006]

Thanks about all the info, i know a lot more now.

 

[flagman1776]

My Ladysmith Second Change

My Second change. All matching. Perfect forcing cone. No rework markings. Chip out of bottom of numbered stocks. With SN late in run, it's probably 1909. Minor turn line. Mine is marked as .22 S&W... obsolete caliber? Sights are rudimentary but still fun to shoot with CB caps.



Back strap is fine, just a reflection.

One should always be alert for a misfire which sounds off & doesn't leave the barrel.

 

[BB57]

High velocity .22s didn't come out until, I think, some time in the early 1930s.

Remington introduced the high velocity .22LR in 1930.

The BB cap used a round lead ball weighing about 18 grains in a very short case about half the length of the .22 Short, using only the priming compound as the propellant. Getting stuck in the bore was not normally an issue, as they were designed for smooth bore barrels.

The original CB caps ("CB" for Conical Ball) used a 29 grain conical bullet in the same BB Cap sized case, but with a small propellant charge. Velocities ranged from 350 fps to 750 fps, and it's the low end of that range that could leave a bullet in the bore.

Today you'll also encounter the .22 CB Short and .22 CB Long, which use a projectile weighing 29 grains loaded to a velocity of around 700 fps in standard .22 Short and .22 Long cases. The major difference is that they use round nose bullets. The whole idea is to allow them to feed in weapons where CB caps would not normally feed properly. Given that they are loaded to the upper end of the CB cap velocity range, they should not pose any particular problems leaving the bullet in the bore.

 

[DWalt]

I have a tin of some old German brand of BB caps. I have fired a few rounds from a rifle, and bullets (or ball) did not stick in the barrel. I still have a partial box of Aguila Kolibri (essentially a .22 Long CB), which I have used for rough sighting-in a couple of scoped .22 rifles in my city back yard, very low noise level, just a slight pop. It wouldn't get anyone's attention as being a gunshot.

 

[cgt4570]

I shoot modern CBs in my tip-ups (2nd and 3rd) and Ladysmiths (1st and 3rd) and don't worry about damaging them.