No, its not a Sig - its a Smith.

[18DAI]

I qualified again yesterday. The class was crowded so I only did two guns. One duty pistol - 4566 and one off duty - 3913. I did claim the 3913 as an alternative duty pistol as I carry it as such.

Before anyone points it out let me say that I intended to qualify again with my 4513 - but I discovered at the range that I'd picked up its empty box. DOH! I'd put it in my small safe after wearing it this past weekend. No matter, the 3913 works for me too. Works VERY well actually.

I was the only one shooting a S&W handgun. Out of 23 officers. There was only one other 9mm too. (Two years ago the OIC banned 9mm usage. The new OIC fixed that piece of stupidity.) A Bersa. Lots of 380's in the off duty qual. Mostly Ruger LCP's. One SA Sig 380.

The duty pistols and most off duty guns were Glocks. Models 21, 30, 23 and 27. Glocks are not perfect as I saw a few malfunctions. FTF, FTE, and one fail to go bang at all. I assume those were user induced or failure to clean/maintain. Not everyone cleans their guns. Even when they stake their life on them daily. Yea, I don't understand it either.

The Ruger LCP 380's appeared to be a bit problamatic too. They evidently don't lock the slide back after the last shot. The three there didn't. Gave the RO a fit seeing if they were clear. Evidently hard to shoot well too as an 82 was the highest score I saw with those. And that fellow was a gun guy too.

I shot my 3913 superbly. As always it exhibited bet your life reliability and tack driving accuracy. Really exceptional accuracy. I was using Winchester Ranger 147 grain 9mm JHP. Excellent round. My 50 rounds were in a large fist sized group during both strings. 100 score. Both day and night.

All day and most of the night I had other officers asking me; "18 what is that you are shooting?" "Is that a Sig?". No its a Smith - 9. "How much do 3913's cost?" was something else I heard several times throughout the course. When I told them it wasn't in production anymore there were some surprised faces. "Why not?" "Corporate greed." I told them. More profit/money in plastic guns. It takes more money and a bit of know how to put together a metal framed semi auto with an excellent trigger and inherent accuracy. Easier to pop a plastic gun out of a paid for mold, slap it together and toss it out the door, knowing that most customers are going to shoot it once and throw it in a sock drawer. But I digress.

Anyways, the 3913 is the gun I shoot the best. Out of all my guns. Easy to carry, easy to conceal, easy to shoot well. Why do I carry other guns? So the 3913 is back in my Ken Null holster on a full time basis. In fact, I just got off the phone with a dealer in the state who is bringing me a NIB 3913 and a used 3914 to the show this weekend to examine. One......or maybe both, are coming home with me. After all, there won't be anymore as nice as the 39 series! Regards 18DAI

 

[DASA]

Thanks for the interesting report on the performance of other brands of pistols. I laughed at the "Is that a SIG" question, I get that all the time when I shoot my CS9 and 908s too.

 

[growr]

Is that a Sig? No....it is something much better... it is a Smith & Wesson 3913 and is still the King of Concealed Carry after all of these years and models!

Randy

 

[Laddy Smith]

4513

I'll hold on to your 4513 for you. I'm sure it will get lonely so I'll put it with my few.

To keep it healthy, better send along a couple thousand rounds to keep it well fed

Lad

 

[kcode]

18 congrats on the excellent score with an "old" pistol. I'm alot like you, with all of my S&W 3rd gens, the 3913-14 are my favorites. I just finished modifying a set of Hogues to fit the early TSW will get pics up later. Makes it a better carry pistol than the straight 3913

 

[GerSan69]

My 3913 always made me look good.

 

[mbliss57]

Great Stuff!!

Great report..it gives me alot more confidence when everyone starts talking about their Sig and Glock's. (Although I do own a Sig P239) That is great stuff. I am so glad to hear you use your S&W 3rd gens and they stand out! My wife has a Sig P238 and that feature where it doesn't lock open drives me nuts. She really like s it.. I just shoot the 3913 instead.
I have to wonder if your 4513TSW is now destined to become your 2nd fiddle...if so I will take it off your hands
I like my 4513TSW no rail better than my 3913. But it's very very close..#1 vs #2.
Like Bama vs LSU!

 

[4506517]

18DAI

From one NC LEO to another.....

Jolly good show!

"Is that a SIG?"..... Lol! I know you just had to bite your tongue before you answered....

 

[JFRAMEJOE]

Love my 3913, It too is my second uniform gun and carry it on details. Loaded with Federal 9BPLE.

 

[Vapor Trail]

18,
Great read & thanks for sharing. After a year of searching I finally found a 3913 myself, great handgun indeed. Glad you like & use yours to its fullest.

 

[18DAI]

Thanks all!!

While I appreciate the kind offers to adopt my 4513's, I'll have to decline. My certification on the 4513TSW 7-shot rail free variant doesn't expire till June 2013. The 4513TSW 6-shot has expired. While it is a very nice carry gun, I don't shoot it as well as some of my others. So it subsequently doesn't see as much use as my other 45's. But I will be keeping it!

kcode, all of my handguns are "old pistols". According to the other officers anyway. Especially the Glock babies. (For those unfamiliar with the term "Glock babies", it refers to those officers whose only exposure/experience/training with handguns, has been with Glock pistols.) Even though my 4566 was minted in 2004 according to S&W customer service. IMO......and experience, you almost have to go with "old pistols" these days to get a quality semi auto handgun. With one or two exceptions of course. Cough, HK Cough, Colt.

I agree on modifying the Hogue compacts to fit the cut out grip frame TSW pistols. Big Dog was kind to me in making a set for my early 4513TSW. Makes a big difference in the control of that pistol and how it fits in my hand.

Another interesting thing I noticed during the qual, I was the only one using a leather holster. Every other fellow there had kydex holsters, the majority with some form (or forms) of retention device. Alarmingly, I saw three officers who had trouble drawing their guns from their retention holsters! In fact, the one to my right stopped using his retention devices and gently set his pistol into the holster after each string so that it DID NOT get secured. If one can't draw his gun easily, on a nice safe sunny square range, what makes him think he will be able to draw quickly enough to save his life on the proverbial O dark 30 thirty with adrenaline coming out of his ears????

I use a thumb break Safariland paddle holster with the 4566 at work. No retention devices other than the thumb break strap. I have practiced with it too - ALOT! While I've had weapon retention training and am always aware of where people are in relation to my handgun, I don't subscribe to the multiple level retention holster. To me it is simply a poor substitute for proper training. In addition, my mindset has always been that if some mope wants to get my gun, he can have it - bullets first.

While I'm droning on here, heres a word about ammunition selection. NC modified the rules a couple of years back regarding using your duty ammo to qualify with. Now, it is permissable to use a cheaper ammunition that "....is ballistically eqivalent to duty ammunition..". So, being poor, and NO LONGER reimbursed for ammunition by the state (NC is almost broke) I used Federal 230 grain ball on the day qual with my 4566. Hey, it was $21 bucks for 100 at wally world. Well it showed in my 4566 day score too. 96.4 day duty gun. Yea, OK, but the lowest score I've ever shot with a steel S&W 45. Three flyers.

I went back to the trunk of the Crown Vic and came up with a box of Winchester Ranger T 230 grain JHP duty ammunition. My 4566 loves this stuff. 100 night score. Lower flash too. I only like Winchester Ranger T and Speer Gold Dot for serious ammo. All the others are OK for plinking or competition - but if its for serious, all the marbles type use - go with one of these rounds in your 45. Great street results with both types.

One last thing, there was only one actual Sig present there! A 226. That one was used by the 3rd gun guy present! Regards 18DAI

 

[Zebulon]

I waited for the excitement of this thread to wane a bit before I offered a response. I'm a fan of the 3913's myself, but I've seen photos of other targets from other pistols 18DAI has posted. I'm thinking that there is no better combination than me and 18DAI as a constant companion. He can carry whatever he likes....I'm secure.....Zebulon

 

[growr]

Sorta adds credence to the "its the shooter NOT the gun" now doesn't it?
Great shooters are going post great scores regardless of what they use...

Randy

 

[18DAI]

Thanks Zebulon! Being I'm a state employee, we've already established that I'll work cheap!!

Hi growr! Yea, I'm a subscriber to the "indian theory". BUT - it is just as important to use a good reliable arrow too!

Best regards, 18DAI

 

[Dot_mdb]

Well this thread really hit the spot for me. I've never owned a Sig and I can't remember ever shooting one either. About once every year or so I get to thinking I just have to own a Sig. Usually I go to a gun show and handle a few and then I spend some time on the Sig Forum. That cures me for another year. Funny though how the 3913 gets almost universal acclaim in threads on the that forum.

I own some third gens including a 3913. It is hard to understand how anyone who has ever owned a 3913 actually goes and sells it. My 457 replaced my 3913 as my EDC but the 3913 is just too good to ever sell.

Bill

 

[Forsmithers]

Love my 3913, It too is my second uniform gun and carry it on details. Loaded with Federal 9BPLE.

JFrameJoe,
How is the recoil with the 9BPLE? I used to carry the 9BP back in the early 90's in my 6906 and wife's 3914. Always wondered how the +P+ would shoot and feel in the hand. I know it's not too bad in a steel framed 9mm pistol but I was a bit nervous to shoot it in the alloy framed guns that won't get repaired at the factory should a crack develop.

 

[ShelbyV8]

18DAI
Did you ever do anything with the blue 4505 slide I sold you a few years ago?

 

[18DAI]

Hi ShelbyV8,

No. Sadly I've not come across a 4506 frame that it would fit and function on. Please PM me if you are interested in it. Regards 18DAI

 

[Stuckless]

Dang it. I've got a 908 that I've never enjoyed shooting and have always considered selling... Now I might dust her off and give her another go.

Decisions.

 

[gtoppcop]

18DAI,

Congrats on showing the Ploymer Kids a thing or two. My local gunsmith does a lot of repairs on the Glocks of the local constables here in Riverside County. Many of them say the gun jams and/or has FTFs.

He often tells me that the firing pin channels are occluded with detritis (it appears they were told to drop some oil in the (self-lubricating firing pin channel) firing pin area. Over time the residue and the dust makes a tight fit in the channel which results in a FTF.

He also tells me that these guys take it out of the holster and give it to him and that the gun is FILTHY. HOW could you carry anything less than a functionally clean firearm to defend yourself or the citizens of which you serve.

You observed that there is a dearth of 'gun people' that are on the job. When I was on the job in metro Denver, I carried a Les Baer TR Special. I saved and saved for it. After the obligatory 1K round break in, it has NEVER failed me. Why? It was scrupulously cleaned. When I qual'd, it was cleaned immediately thereafter. If I couldn't, the spare Colt GM was dusted off and put in its place.

The 3rd Gens are IMO the best pistol for the LE professional (overbuilt, safety mechanisms and the redundancy of the systems). Very few of them ever have FTFs or FTEs. If they do, it's traced to magazines (non-factory) or downright neglect.

Many cops today are not 'gun people' and have no vested interest in knowing how to detail strip, much less field strip their sidearms. They were most likely never mentored.

Today in the USMC (Air Wing) I see many of my fellow Marines qualifying at the pistol range with the oft-maligned Beretta. Say what you may, but in my experience I have NEVER, EVER, NEVER experienced a FTE, FTF or any other malfunction. They have ALWAYS shot POA/POI and have made me shoot high expert. Why? I'm mechanically curious and read about their strengths and limitations. I also keep them scrupulously clean.

When I was in the 'Stan', I cleaned the piece with CostCo baby wipes (they work!) and a shaving brush with the thrice weekly bore snake job. The lube was TW-25B. Bottom Line: My pistol was ready to defend my life and the lives of my fellow Marines.

Just as there are non-gun cops, there are non-gun Marines (Air Wing especially).

Moral of the story: Tis better to know your piece (read 'My Rifle' by LtGen Rupertus and adapt it to your chosen pistol...) and learn HOW it works. You'll be amazed at what you can learn about it. To me the 3rd Gens are the BEST (I'm a wheel gun and 1911 guy too!) pistols for the armed citizen and LE professional.

Whew! I feel better now!