No more 3rd generation Smiths?

[O2BShooting]

I was looking @ the S&W website last night and I correct that they have stopped producing gen three guns? Apparently there's not enough demand for them anymore. Great guns in my opinion that were built to stand up to anything.

O2B

 

[Fastbolt]

They've been curtailing the production and sales of 3rd gen pistols for some time, like moving the TSW's and CS series out of the commercial catalog and into the LE/Gov catalog a while back. Now they aren't even in the LE/Gov catalog.

They've moved production of the 3rd gen guns to the Maine plant (where SW1911's, .22's & the licensed Walther .380's/.32's are made).

They'll make the 3rd gen guns for their existing LE customer agencies, but they're obviously pushing the M&P line.

They're apparently still clearing out some accumulated back log of production overruns, selling them to a couple of the larger wholesalers, so they can be found now and again.

You can thank the market appeal of plastic pistols.

Granted, the M&P pistols are easier to learn to repair and service, though.

 

[remat457]

It's my understanding that they will make a 3rd gen for anyone (wholesaler, dealer, LEA) that orders a minimum quantity of 50. Up until very recently there were still a few in their LE catalog.

 

[Matt C.]

group buy?????

 

[O2BShooting]

I guess witht the exception the 10mm's there are lots of 3rd generations out there and a nice clean used one can be picked up usually for a good price.

O2B

 

[18DAI]

S&W doesn't make the profit off 3rd generation pistols that it makes off the ugly tupperware it is currently vested in.

I hope that the next company to own S&W will make some nice TDA metal framed pistols for us.

Till then, there are plenty of examples out there - some NIB - to last me. Regards 18DAI.

 

[Nframe357]

Sorry guys but Smith is a sell out, pushing junk that only the foolish would buy now. Like the market place isn't full of plastic junk and taurus judges, but hey 3rd gens are "obsolete". Thanks but I'll keep my 4506's and they can keep their m&p's.

 

[kbm6893]

S&W was the one company that offered guns with all four of the features i look for: hammer fired, metal, manual safety, and mag disconnect. In the M&P line, you can get manual safety OR mag disconnect, but not both. What is the weight difference between a polymer frame and an alloy one? 3 oz? Not enough difference to buy some cheap looking plastic gun.

 

[Jim PHL]

Didn't I see somewhere that they would do special orders if certain minimums were met? If that's the case and the minimums were low enough, we could probably get enough people together on this forum to place an order/make a bulk buy. I would think their equipment would still be in place, even if not in daily use?

 

[O2BShooting]

Didn't I see somewhere that they would do special orders if certain minimums were met? If that's the case and the minimums were low enough, we could probably get enough people together on this forum to place an order/make a bulk buy. I would think their equipment would still be in place, even if not in daily use?

More than likely they have the equipment still but the main components are dedicated to production of something else and the specialized stuff is in storage. From a company standpoint it makes no sense to eat up valuable production floor space with ideal equipment not in use.

From a production standpoint I would think that the size order necessary to do a new run of 3rd gen pistols would have to fairly large to dedicate production time, resources & materials, and personnel to for something that their profit margin probably isn't that big on. Let's face it plastic guns are very cheap to make in comparison to all metal guns.

With that being said it still doesn't mean that I wouldn't like for them to do another run of 10mm's to statisfy my selfish wants.

O2B

 

[Fastbolt]

A thought that has repeatedly occurred to me is that Sig Sauer might be starting to experience what S&W experienced in the middle 90's ...

They've started offering virtually gun-of-the-month models and even the customer base isn't tickled with the increased cost of the metal-frame guns.

They're getting more customer complaints, it seems, from folks who think service-grade guns should look like they've been hand-fitted and received high-line finishing and hand polishing ... but at the reduced cost of a service gun, of course.

They're pushing a new plastic service pistol line (P250) which may well become their new "flagship" so they can compete in LE/Gov markets being increasingly saturated with plastic guns.

They even developed a SRT (short reset trigger) sear and sear spring in order to better compete with S&W in a large LE contract where metal-frames guns were involved. They weren't awarded that contract, but they marketed the new SRT in their regular TDA models.

It would be a shame indeed if the last real hold-out of metal-famed TDA service guns with short trigger reset capability were Sig's ... after S&W led the way starting back in 1952 with the M39 series (for a military bid submission) ... but if things continue the way they're going we might see more Sig plastic pistols, and maybe they might eventually price themselves out of the metal-framed pistol commercial market. Deja vu ...

They can compete with the PC by offering SAO's & the re-introduction of the P210.

I miss the 3rd gen guns. I've been stocking up on parts for some time so I can keep my own 3rd gen's up and running for as many years as I can shoot them.

 

[117]

More than likely they have the equipment still but the main components are dedicated to production of something else and the specialized stuff is in storage. From a company standpoint it makes no sense to eat up valuable production floor space with ideal equipment not in use.

From a production standpoint I would think that the size order necessary to do a new run of 3rd gen pistols would have to fairly large to dedicate production time, resources & materials, and personnel to for something that their profit margin probably isn't that big on. Let's face it plastic guns are very cheap to make in comparison to all metal guns.

With that being said it still doesn't mean that I wouldn't like for them to do another run of 10mm's to statisfy my selfish wants.

O2B

Probably the only way to get a run of 3rd generation guns would be to flood one of the major gun distributers with request and e-mails for the 3rd gen guns.If they know enough people are interested in a particular model or models it would only make since for them to place a order with S&W.

 

[S&W1006]

Sorry guys but Smith is a sell out, pushing junk that only the foolish would buy now. Like the market place isn't full of plastic junk and taurus judges, but hey 3rd gens are "obsolete". Thanks but I'll keep my 4506's and they can keep their m&p's.

No offense but the new Smith's are excellent firearms. I own 3rd gen Smiths and had a M&P and I am in the market for a couple more M&P's. The polymer framed guns may not be for everybody but how foolish would they look if they continued to push the same old firearms that aren't selling. Look at how Glock locked up the law enforcement segment. I love steel frame pistols but I love the polymer one's as well. Love it or hate it Glock's work and work well and I believe Smith surpased Glock with the M&P. I know we all want what we want I'm a 10mm fan but the 10mm isn't for everybody. Smith just like every other company has to make what people want. It's hard to argue with the reduced weight if you have to carry all day everyday as well not to mention magazine capacity. I love the 3rd gen Smith's too and I will buy more of them but I will also buy the polymer framed Smith's too. Which in my opinion is the best polymer framed pistol availible. Honestly too gunsmithing is way easier on the new guns as well. So I wouldn't call them a sell out and in my opinion the firearms they are building aren't junk either. You know what they say if you can't beat 'em join 'em. Thanks S&W for all the fine firearms you have built and continue to build. Now where is my 10mm M&P?

 

[remat457]

^--- Agree. If enough people contacted a distributor like Lew Horton with serious intention I bet they could make a run happen. S&W let their LE market drop to virtually 0% for years, I am glad that they have a competitive product in the M&P's.

And there is a huge difference between my 1006 and my M&P 9's. Completely different but both are fine pistols.

 

[Nframe357]

No offense but the new Smith's are excellent firearms. I own 3rd gen Smiths and had a M&P and I am in the market for a couple more M&P's. The polymer framed guns may not be for everybody but how foolish would they look if they continued to push the same old firearms that aren't selling. Look at how Glock locked up the law enforcement segment. I love steel frame pistols but I love the polymer one's as well. Love it or hate it Glock's work and work well and I believe Smith surpased Glock with the M&P. I know we all want what we want I'm a 10mm fan but the 10mm isn't for everybody. Smith just like every other company has to make what people want. It's hard to argue with the reduced weight if you have to carry all day everyday as well not to mention magazine capacity. I love the 3rd gen Smith's too and I will buy more of them but I will also buy the polymer framed Smith's too. Which in my opinion is the best polymer framed pistol availible. Honestly too gunsmithing is way easier on the new guns as well. So I wouldn't call them a sell out and in my opinion the firearms they are building aren't junk either. You know what they say if you can't beat 'em join 'em. Thanks S&W for all the fine firearms you have built and continue to build. Now where is my 10mm M&P?

Well, well a "teaching moment" glock locked up the LE market by undercutting everyone elses prices, not by being a superior product, period. Straight from Glock not someone making this up, they would come in and buy up whatever said dept was carrying then give them free glocks, glock is a superior marketer and that's it. The average gunbuyer today is tacticool ignorant, they buy what is trendy and that is what the makers cater to, trendy buffoons. New smiths being great, you really need to get out more and maybe read some of the threads here on this forum about new Smiths falling apart, I've personally seen how "great" new ones are so you feel free to buy all this newe trendy junk you like. I'll keep my old "heavy" reliable Smiths that don't fall apart.

 

[jsg34]

The problem with a group buy would be getting everyone to agree which model to buy. I'd be in for most 3rd gen stainless autos.

 

[S&W1006]

Nframe357 I own the old as well as the new and I even own Glocks. They all have their weaknesses. Don't get me wrong I love my 3rd gen Smith's too but I really believe the new Smith's are a fine product. I'm glad to see Smith&Wesson an American company fighting for their spot. But to each his own.But if company's didn't make new products we would still be shooting muzzle loading flintlocks. There's nothing wrong with a little innovation even if it has a polymer frame.

 

[kbm6893]

If I wanted a polymer framed striker fired pistol, I would get the M&P without a doubt. great warranty, customer service, and UNLIKE Glock, they offer them with different features that some people actually want, like a safety, internal lock, or mag disconnect. They feel much better in the hand than a Glock does, too. I just feel that the ONLY thing a polymer gun has going for it over an alloy framed one (I wouldn't carry an all steel 5906, either) is a few ounces of weight. If the extra 3 ounces is unbearable, then that is sad. I owned two Glocks at one point, and sold them. If I was GIVEN a free M&P, I'd sell it for a 3rd gen Smith, even if I had to come up with a few bucks to make it happen.

 

[snubb]

I would be in for a group buy.

Can someone take the lead on this one?

 

[epj]

Can someone take the lead on this one?

I wouldn't get too excited. We can't get 50 folks to buy a $150 .40 S&W barrel for 10XX guns. I 'spect getting up an order for 50+ say 5906's or 4566's or whatever would be pretty tough. There are plenty of excellent used ones on the market at usually very attractive prices. As I recall, the last gen3 guns were pretty much all TSW models, and they were quite pricey at least as far as MSRP. Today a real nice XXXXTSW isn't much if any more expensive than the comparable XXXX nonTSW. Almost all these guns in the more popular madels can be bought for under $500 in pristine condition and under $400 in very nice shape. Mechanically perfect examples with a few handling marks(which are easily removed) are frequently traded in the $300-350 range. If you just have to have a new, unfired example, they are available too. While they may take a while to find, and be a bit more pricey, they will likely be cheaper than they could be bought from S&W.