O.K. What about Max Loads for 357 Magnum using WIN 296/HP 110?

[venomballistics]

I have some IMR 4227 and will appreciate being advised of your suggested loads: will check and see if I have any previous loadings with various bullet weights.

Thanks!, and Cheers!

I doubt that you have any of my specific bullets for these loads, so direct notes are a bit of a pipe dream.
The best luck you'll have is if you can find a hollow point version of the Lyman/Ideal 358429
IIRC, I was right at 14 grains.
Even then, I custom turned an HP punch to replace the missing part when it was given to me years ago.
If you cast, and happen to have that old Keith type.
Orbiting 14 should get you there too

 

[Nick B]

Accurate no 9 better then 296 0r H110. Use mag primers.

I was informed on this forum that #9 doesn’t need a magnum primer.

 

[rockquarry]

I doubt that you have any of my specific bullets for these loads, so direct notes are a bit of a pipe dream.
The best luck you'll have is if you can find a hollow point version of the Lyman/Ideal 358429
IIRC, I was right at 14 grains.
Even then, I custom turned an HP punch to replace the missing part when it was given to me years ago.
If you cast, and happen to have that old Keith type.
Orbiting 14 should get you there too

The HP version of #358429 is #358439. Weight is about 155 grs. in wheelweight alloy. 12 grs. #2400 velocity is 1200 fps from a 6" barrel with good accuracy. I tried 13 grs. with a slightly harder alloy, about 16 BHN, 1300 fps with accuracy deterioration so I saw no point in trying 14 grs. Maybe I should have used WW or softer alloy.

 

[venomballistics]

The HP version of #358429 is #358439. Weight is about 153 - 155 grs. in wheelweight alloy. 12 grs. #2400 velocity is 1200 fps from a 6" barrel with good accuracy. 13 grs. = 1300 fps with accuracy deterioration so I saw no point in trying 14 grs.

The load was with 4227, not 2400 nor H110.
4227 has a few traits some might consider undesirable. It does, however, deliver the goods in the 357. It's a sleeper worth checking out

 

[Yendor357]

I run standard primers with No.9. No.9 is a good powder that I like real well. But I have 8 pounds of H110, so that’s mostly what I use.

For whatever reason, I get good accuracy with 158 and 180 grain XTPs at 30 yards with my Marlin 1894 with an 4X Leupold; almost always a one holder with 180s especially.

But they seem to unravel at 100 yards. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[rockquarry]

The load was with 4227, not 2400 nor H110.
4227 has a few traits some might consider undesirable. It does, however, deliver the goods in the 357. It's a sleeper worth checking out

Okay, I assumed it was #2400 you were referring to. The only .357 bullet I've used IMR4227 with is the H&G #51, 160 grain cast SWC. With a BHN of about 9-10, I used 14 grs. IMR4227. Accuracy was decent with a MV of 1095 from a 6" barrel. 13 grs. was considerably more accurate but with a MV of only 1038.

 

[alwslate]

These questions about maximum charges of 2400 or 296 in the .357 magnum are interesting. I suppose they stem from a fear of exceeding the 35,000 pressure limit for the .357 which is just about impossible due to case capacity. And... some handloaders forget about the .44 magnum in the model 29. Same cyl diameter but with much thinner cyl walls and with a std pressure limit of 36,000 psi. No one is likely to even come close to a dangerous overload in an N frame .357 with any published data.

 

[colt_saa]

I have been shooting and hand loading for the 357 Magnum cartridge since the late 1970s

I am a BIG fan of H110/296. I do not have an exact log, but I have easily burned through several hundred pounds of H110 over the decades. Lots of it also went through my 41 Magnums

I like the big beautiful orange fireball as well as the deep throaty KaBOOOM that the powder produced instead of the usual BANG

Most of the 357s have been loaded with the Winchester 125 JHP projectile over 21.6 or 21.7 grains of H110 depending on which powder throw was used

I still have 3900 of the 125 Winchesters waiting to be loaded

I have chronographed this load in 2 dozen+ firearms ranging from the 1 7/8" Model 340 all the way up to a 18" 1892 lever action.

H110 has worked so well for me right from the start that I never even explored other powders for top end loadings in the Magnum cartridges

 

[scooter123]

I second this post.

I have experience with H-110/W-296 in the .357 Magnum. I can't really recommend it for 125 grain bullets as that combination produces a tremendous fireball and is the load combination that also produces the greatest amount of forcing cone erosion and top strap flame cutting. H-110/W-296 does work well with jacketed 158 grain bullets if you are seeking the highest velocity loads.

My max load was 17.0 grains H-110, Winchester 158 grain SJHP bullet, Remington .357 Magnum brass, and CCI 550 primers. It produced an average of 1406 fps and an extreme spread of 19 fps from a Dan Wesson 15-2 with an 8 inch barrel.

Remington factory 158 grain SJHP ammo produced an average of 1442 fps and an extreme spread of 44 fps in the same revolver.

Been there done that with 21.5 grains of H110 with a 125 grain double plated Extreme bullet. While not a totally maximum load it was enough to produce about 15-20 feet of flame and enough blast to sound like a 500 Magnum. I shot just 1 cylinder full with my 620 and decided that was enough. Recoil wasn't fun and the muzzle flash was so bad I lost sight of the target at the fairly well lit indoor range I was shooting at.

On the flip side a 14.6 grain load with a 158 grain Hornady XTP produced 1620 fps out of my 20 inch 1892 Winchester with 3/4 MOA accuracy at 100 yards. BTW the rifle has a 1904 receiver and it was re-barreled by Winchester by a Previous Owner sometime in the 1950's when that service was available.

Point here is that H110 is a wonderful choice for use in a Short Rifle. In my case it gets use for loads for my 1892, my home built AR in 300 Blackout, and my 410 Competition loads for Skeet. BTW it's pretty dirty in the 410 but with an operating pressure of 8,000-12,000 psi any powder you use in 410 is dirty.

 

[mrussell]

I used a 158 Winchester JHP, magnum primers and worked up to 16.7 gr H110. Averaged 1222 fps out of 4” 27-2 and 1301 out of 6” 686 no dash. This is the maximum load currently showing on the Hodgdon web site. I am getting a large spread with both of the guns. I have read that this powder needs a very firm crimp. I would like it if someone had a picture of a firm crimp into a cannelure on a .357 as maybe my crimp is not firm enough.

 

[alwslate]

I used a 158 Winchester JHP, magnum primers and worked up to 16.7 gr H110. Averaged 1222 fps out of 4” 27-2 and 1301 out of 6” 686 no dash. This is the maximum load currently showing on the Hodgdon web site. I am getting a large spread with both of the guns. I have read that this powder needs a very firm crimp. I would like it if someone had a picture of a firm crimp into a cannelure on a .357 as maybe my crimp is not firm enough.

The loads in manuals for 296/H110 have been reduced because of the small guns mentioned above. H110 needs pressure to perform best. Bump your load up about half a grain. A firm crimp is needed but that isn't enough. Cases need to be nearly fully resized and then expanded only enough to easily start the bullet. The case needs a firm grip on the base of the bullet. You need to be able to see where the base of the bullet is just by looking at the outside. Over crimping might buckle the case a bit and be counter productive. I could text you a pic of a .44 magnum handload with 296 to illustrate if you need to see what it looks like. Your crimp should be a good roll crimp over the rear edge of the cannelure with the case mouth about in the center of it. Excessive crimping could just thin the brass and weaken the crimp. My old Lyman Revolver and Pistol manual, published before the .357 was dumbed down, listed a charge of 17.7 grs of H110 with a 158 gr Hornady JHP at 42,000 CUP. About where most manuals loaded the .357 to which is just about the same as 35,000 psi. Your two guns would be fine with this.

 

[stansdds]

I have been shooting and hand loading for the 357 Magnum cartridge since the late 1970s

I am a BIG fan of H110/296. I do not have an exact log, but I have easily burned through several hundred pounds of H110 over the decades. Lots of it also went through my 41 Magnums

I like the big beautiful orange fireball as well as the deep throaty KaBOOOM that the powder produced instead of the usual BANG

Most of the 357s have been loaded with the Winchester 125 JHP projectile over 21.6 or 21.7 grains of H110 depending on which powder throw was used

I still have 3900 of the 125 Winchesters waiting to be loaded

I have chronographed this load in 2 dozen+ firearms ranging from the 1 7/8" Model 340 all the way up to a 18" 1892 lever action.

H110 has worked so well for me right from the start that I never even explored other powders for top end loadings in the Magnum cartridges

21.5 grains of H110 was my max load using 125 grain JHP bullets. They were "what are you shooting?" loads as that is what those on either side of me on the firing line would ask as they backed away from me.

 

[mrussell]

The loads in manuals for 296/H110 have been reduced because of the small guns mentioned above. H110 needs pressure to perform best. Bump your load up about half a grain. A firm crimp is needed but that isn't enough. Cases need to be nearly fully resized and then expanded only enough to easily start the bullet. The case needs a firm grip on the base of the bullet. You need to be able to see where the base of the bullet is just by looking at the outside. Over crimping might buckle the case a bit and be counter productive. I could text you a pic of a .44 magnum handload with 296 to illustrate if you need to see what it looks like. Your crimp should be a good roll crimp over the rear edge of the cannelure with the case mouth about in the center of it. Excessive crimping could just thin the brass and weaken the crimp. My old Lyman Revolver and Pistol manual, published before the .357 was dumbed down, listed a charge of 17.7 grs of H110 with a 158 gr Hornady JHP at 42,000 CUP. About where most manuals loaded the .357 to which is just about the same as 35,000 psi. Your two guns would be fine with this.

Thank you for the advice. I have my crimps pretty much what you describe. Unfortunately I loaded more than enough of these at the time. I never dreamed it needed more powder as the primers were already pretty flat at 16.7 grains. The loads are still pretty accurate even though they vary in velocity. The 27-2 varies a maximum of 40 fps from average and the 686 about 50 fps from average. I have some 158 gr LSWC with 15.5 gr 2400 and they averaged 1301 fps out of the 27-2 and 1340 out of the 686 and they have less than half the velocity variation.

 

[alwslate]

Well mrussell I don't want to seem like a nitpicker but many handloaders think they can judge pressure by what appears to be flat primers. Probably because they have never seen primers flattened by high pressure. If you have a Speer manual read the section on pressure and look at the pics. It actually takes about 80,000 psi to flatten primers. Pretty rare in handgun loads but sometimes seen in overloads in centerfire rifles that normally run at about 62,000 psi.

 

[Yendor357]

Alwslate, I played around with what you said about overloading the 357 with H110. That overloaded with 110, velocities actually drop.

That is true, in revolvers. I ran some of my (heavy) Rifle Loads thru a revolver earlier today. Velocities were all over the place. Mostly they went down. Oddly enough, the groups didn’t open up all that much.

But in rifles, velocity continue to climb. At least mine do. (Here lately, I’ve been shooting more 357s thru rifles than revolvers)

I keep repeating that every hand loader ought to have a chronograph. ^Thats a good example. I never knew that would happen.

 

[colt_saa]

21.5 grains of H110 was my max load using 125 grain JHP bullets. They were "what are you shooting?" loads as that is what those on either side of me on the firing line would ask as they backed away from me.

The Sgt that I used to shoot with back in the 80s loved firing these out of his 2 1/2" Model 19. He referred to these loads as Attention Getters

These left his Snubby at 1,264 FPS as measured with my old Ohler 33

 

[stansdds]

The Sgt that I used to shoot with back in the 80s loved firing these out of his 2 1/2" Model 19. He referred to these loads as Attention Getters

These left his Snubby at 1,264 FPS as measured with my old Ohler 33

Indeed, they are attention getters!

 

[Model19man]

I have been shooting and hand loading for the 357 Magnum cartridge since the late 1970s
H110 has worked so well for me right from the start that I never even explored other powders for top end loadings in the Magnum cartridges

I started reloading around 1981. That year I bought a nickel plated Model 19-5 S&W brand new. The internet had yet to be invented so no one was telling me I should not use lots of W296 behind Winchester 125 grain semi jacketed hollow points. So I did. I went through many bags of bullets and many pounds of W296. The boom and the fireballs cleared out many indoor ranges. I still have my Model 19 and it looks like new. It still is very accurate despite seeing many thousands of rounds.

 

[Troystat]

I have shot a lot of W-296/H110 loads in my 27-2 with a 5 inch barrel, I started out in the mid 1980's using a Speer #10 manual, the newer manuals and powder websites max loads are lower. I think in pistols quite a bit of powder was burned in front of the barrel. I am tempted to buy a Winchester model 92 just for those rounds.