Observations in shooting my 15-22 as an SBR

[RedNeck Jim]

That's interesting.
What does it do without the can?

The few I shot without the can were on the gun with the 16" barrel. I shoot very little on my property without a suppressor as it spooks the horses & makes getting them in the barn that evening just a load of fun.

I assume the problem would only get worse, with the reduction in back pressure. My reasoning is that shooting subsonics suppressed with a 4.5" barrel is right on the edge of where a trigger can reset, as demonstrated by having the same issue with the stock trigger & the CMC. I note dullh has exactly the same issue. We all know every gun acts a little different so maybe some never have this issue. I sure woud like to get a lot of data from lots of folks regarding barrel length, ammo used & which suppressor used.

The 15-22 was not designed to operate with such a short barrel. Obviously it can do it but the question is, what barrel length allows 100% functionality? My observation is 4.5" is too short.

 

[BigWaylon]

I went back & looked at your video from your SBR project, where we noted the FRP on your first round shot suppressed. When looking at your video, there is obviously a lot of "energy" leaving the suppressor as opposed to the following rounds.

Oxygen accelerates the burn of the unburnt powder in that first shot. That's why the first one sometimes looks and sounds different. I guess if you were right on the edge of a tolerance required to reset your trigger, it may be just enough energy difference to cause the symptoms you're seeing. I'm not sure there's an easy fix...unless you find somebody with a barrel that's 8+ inches that may add just a little extra oomph to that first shot.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I'm not sure there's an easy fix...unless you find somebody with a barrel that's 8+ inches that may add just a little extra oomph to that first shot.

I agree there appears to be no fix, since I went back & tried with a stock FCG. I sure don't want to keep playing around with triggers. If I had it to do over again, I would certainly go longer... probably 9-10". That would get the gun back down to carbine length, with suppressor attached, and I bet that extra 5" or so would give that extra oomph needed.

My purpose here is not to necessarily fix my issue but to bring to the forefront issues when cutting down your barrel. 4.5" was suggested to allow using HV ammo without hearing the sonic crack. That is true & nice. What wasn't really discussed was functionality with such a short barrel nor was how loud HV sounds in that barrel. They may not crack but they are very noticeably louder. For me, if I'm gonna shoot suppressed, I want the gun as quiet as possible. That means shooting subsonics... period.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The few I shot without the can were on the gun with the 16" barrel. I shoot very little on my property without a suppressor as it spooks the horses & makes getting them in the barn that evening just a load of fun.

I assume the problem would only get worse, with the reduction in back pressure. My reasoning is that shooting subsonics suppressed with a 4.5" barrel is right on the edge of where a trigger can reset, as demonstrated by having the same issue with the stock trigger & the CMC. I note dullh has exactly the same issue. We all know every gun acts a little different so maybe some never have this issue. I sure woud like to get a lot of data from lots of folks regarding barrel length, ammo used & which suppressor used.

The 15-22 was not designed to operate with such a short barrel. Obviously it can do it but the question is, what barrel length allows 100% functionality? My observation is 4.5" is too short.

The lighter JP springs might be enough to overcome that first round issue. If that doesn't solve it lightening the bolt or playing with the bolt return spring might be worth considering. There's got to be a solution for that barrel length. Heck, I guess you could start every mag with a MiniMag since you get a FRP anyway but that's not really a solution. If I were close by id like to try my YHM Wraith can which has a lot more volume than the Sparrow. No FRP.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

The lighter JP springs might be enough to overcome that first round issue. If that doesn't solve it lightening the bolt or playing with the bolt return spring might be worth considering. There's got to be a solution for that barrel length. Heck, I guess you could start every mag with a MiniMag since you get a FRP anyway but that's not really a solution. If I were close by id like to try my YHM Wraith can which has a lot more volume than the Sparrow. No FRP.

I will try your springs & see what happens. I'm not interested in those other options. If the springs don't work and if no one wants to trade barrels, then I will just send the gun to S&W & let them put a 16" on it.

 

[BigWaylon]

I will try your springs & see what happens. I'm not interested in those other options. If the springs don't work and if no one wants to trade barrels, then I will just send the gun to S&W & let them put a 16" on it.

Before you send it back, let me know. I'll see if I can find somebody that wants to just swap you out, either with a ~10" or factory length.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Before you send it back, let me know. I'll see if I can find somebody that wants to just swap you out, either with a ~10" or factory length.

I would like to trade, so please check around. Even an unthreaded barrel will be fine as I will send it off to be cut & threaded for the Sparrow specs.

 

[vipermd]

RJ- you could give it a blast of CO2 to help reduce the FRP. Also after the CO2 you could put a piece of electrical tape over the can, it would seal in the CO2 for a while and would give"slight" increase in back pressure?? Enough to reset the trigger??
I have a 10.5 on 15-22 with an Innovative arms integral suppressor, it is incredibly quiet ( action noise) use Fed bulk 36 gr 1250, cycle and runs great. I have tried Rem subsonics and CCI "quiet" rounds and now I do not remember which one cycles the gun ( senior moment) I will check it later today and let you know. Also I had tried a slidefire on it with the HV loads and the can is so effective that it will not run. If I change uppers to stock it runs great. I would be curious what the tape will do. Be Safe,

 

[stickbug1]

I read through the post and have some good news for you. I think there is a very simple item that everyone has overlooked.

I regularly shoot my 15-22P suppressed with no problems. I usually run CCI standard velocity and it is absolutely silent, feeds and fires every time.

The difference is in the bolt spring. Remember these are blowback operated. Reduced chamber pressure and dwell time has detrimental effects. Full bolt cycle & trigger reset has very little to do with the FCG springs. The 15-22 rifle that you used for the SBR's starting point has a blue bolt spring. If you open up an M&P15-22P pistol that comes factory with a 6" barrel, you will find that it has a reduced pressure white spring.

Call Smith and order a pistol spring and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Happy shooting!

 

[RedNeck Jim]

The difference is in the bolt spring. Remember these are blowback operated. Reduced chamber pressure and dwell time has detrimental effects. Full bolt cycle & trigger reset has very little to do with the FCG springs. The 15-22 rifle that you used for the SBR's starting point has a blue bolt spring. If you open up an M&P15-22P pistol that comes factory with a 6" barrel, you will find that it has a reduced pressure white spring.

Is that the only difference? I thought others have said the bolt itself was lightened.

 

[jonesy814]

Shots sound louder with the short barrel because the muzzle is a lot closer to you.

 

[BigWaylon]

I've got a couple guys that sound interested. One even willing to swap handguard as well if you shortened it. Another one already has F1 approved and just hasn't made the move, yet.

You want to try the white spring first? If so, I'll let them know.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I've got a couple guys that sound interested. One even willing to swap handguard as well if you shortened it. Another one already has F1 approved and just hasn't made the move, yet.

You want to try the white spring first? If so, I'll let them know.

No. I'd prefer to start over & go with a 10" barrel. I'll swap handguards too, as no big deal cutting one down.

 

[stickbug1]

Redneck_Jim
You are correct that the bolt in the pistol does have more material removed to lighten it. Figured a .50 spring would be the best place for him to start.

 

[BigWaylon]

No. I'd prefer to start over & go with a 10" barrel. I'll swap handguards too, as no big deal cutting one down.

Sent three of them your contact info. Hopefully one of them works out. Don't know any of the three, but they're all fairly active members of either ARFCOM and/or CSC (Carolina Shooters Club) and I wouldn't hesitate to do business with any of them.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Sent three of them your contact info. Hopefully one of them works out. Don't know any of the three, but they're all fairly active members of either ARFCOM and/or CSC (Carolina Shooters Club) and I wouldn't hesitate to do business with any of them.

Thank you sir.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

To update, a member here has sent me his upper for a swap.

My plan will be to cut the barrel down to around 10", once the swap is complete.

 

[zercool]

To update, a member here has sent me his upper for a swap.

My plan will be to cut the barrel down to around 10", once the swap is complete.

I just shipped mine off for a cut-and-thread to 9". It'll be sitting at the 'smith until the Form 1 comes back.

 

[WGTX]

I haven't but maybe I'll give that a try. If that helps I'll get with you on the springs or are you saying adding the springs might help the issue? Or do they simply lighten trigger pull?

I wish more folks that shoot the 15-22 SBR would tell their experiences. What length barrel, what FCG & if they have any added issues because of the shorter barrel. My 15-22 with CMC trigger just never, ever fails with a 16" barrel. Granted, I only shoot the good stuff, such as the Norma & CCI but soon as I switch to the 4.5" barrel, I have failures.

I see you've already gone another route but here goes anyway.

6" barrel
Stock trigger with JP yellow springs
Sure Fire Ryder

I havn't shot any "subs" or quite ie the really slow stuff. Ran a full mag of Gemtech with no problems at all. Have run a lot of Aguila SV, CCI SV with no problems.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I see you've already gone another route but here goes anyway.

6" barrel
Stock trigger with JP yellow springs
Sure Fire Ryder

I havn't shot any "subs" or quite ie the really slow stuff. Ran a full mag of Gemtech with no problems at all. Have run a lot of Aguila SV, CCI SV with no problems.

I hope more folks will post their experiences, issues, configuration & ammo used. I pretty much only shoot CCI SV & Norma Tac-22 & as stated, had issues with trigger reset with a 4.5" barrel. So you have NEVER had that issue with a 6" barrel & your Surefire? That is good to know. Did you first try the stock trigger & have issues? Did the JP springs help with issues or were they used just to lighten trigger pull?

This am sent off my 4.5" barrel & short handguard to a member here. Hope he post results with his configuration. Also sent off my new barrel to Adco this am, to be cut down to 11".