OC vs CC

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Thanks for the welcome. Not trying to stir up a hornets nest by the way. Just wanted honest opinions from both camps. I was expecting to see some heated comments. Perhaps I should have mentioned that I live in a community where there is a gun related crime once every fifteen or twenty years. I can't even remember when or what the last one was. Before someone asks why I want to carry, mostly because I can. As well as for personal protection, it is my constitutional right and I don't see any good reason not to. Honestly the only reason I can see carrying concealed in my situation, at least at this point, is that I would be able to carry legally in my vehicle.

Thanks for the responses.

Three things will stir up a debate on any firearms forum:

1) OC vs. CC
2) Glock vs. 1911
3) Which caliber is the best (9mm, .40, &.45ACP being the most common)?

Take what everyone has to say and decide what is going to work best for you.

Me personally, I don't see a problem with open carry but I don't want the attention that goes with it. I won't judge anyone who does either. As long as they aren't breaking any laws, I don't care. I do open carry on limited occasions and never have had a problem personally but I stick to where I know it won't be a problem.
 
Anyway, my 'truth' is just real world experience, 20 years of LEO work and understanding that thugs jump cops all the time, cops who are in uniform and carrying openly. A Professor may quantify the world from the safety of his office, but in the real world of street criminals, they simply ain't afraid.

I'm not fight picking and don't want to start a flame war. No point, you can't convince a man who thinks the sky is pink it's not. Fair enough. But instead of constantly trying to tear down the argument of someone who simply disagrees, why not approach your position from a common sense point of view?

Just because you have not been targeted doesn't mean you can't be or won't be. The fact you haven't been yet may be more a factor of grace or luck than any towering intimidation over evil doer's that openly carrying presumably offers. Common sense, bro. Why tell anyone what you have, how many rounds you have and where that instrument of defense is?

If you presume you need to carry a weapon because some potential threats exists, why scream out in waves of HD clarity "HERE'S MY GUN, ON MY RIGHT SIDE, IN A NON RETENTION HOLSTER, HERE IT IS. I HAVE A 1911-A1, I HAVE 8 ROUNDS AT MY DISPOSAL. JUST SO YOU KNOW."

SWAT teams and the military don't call the bad guys an hour before they arrive and tell them how many good guys are coming, what kind of weapons they have, when they'll arrive and from what direction. Hate to use a pornographically overused word, but "tactically" speaking, why would one throw away every "tactical" advantage like that? For what? Because "I can."?

For me personally, that's not a good enough reason to risk , even if I'm the first one ever, being an OC that gets keyholed and relieved of my weapon and have it possibly used on me and my spouse. No thanks. My hide and my wife's life are worth a heck of a lot more than "Because I can." And I'm sure the first guy who gets distracted by the pack animals of the street and is being 'degunned' might be thinking "Wait, this never happened before! The stats show this shouldn't be happening!" That'll comfort him, I'm sure.

I don't need lawyers, professors or NRA stats to provide me with common sense. If a predator isn't afraid to jump a cop in uniform, acting under the color of law, who is open carrying, and that attack will bring heavy criminal charges, then he won't have any fear at all about attacking an untrained, average civilian carrying his piece around, not dutifully keeping his 540 perceptual vigilance, walking in 'white mode'.

Simply put, a street carnivore who ain't afraid of 6'1" uniformed street cop or state trooper is NOT going to be afraid of Joe Six pack toting around his plastic Austrian pop gun.

Look, carry openly if you want. Fine. Your skin. But throwing around Internet stats and straw man '2nd Amendment right' arguments can't change the fact that OC throws away the most critical elements of carrying a gun for self protection - anonymity and surprise.

But on this topic, I'm 10-8. The opposition argument can't be said any clearer, and besides I've had my enjoyable fill of "Let's BBQ Anyone That Doesn't March In Lockstep On OC Carry!" It was fun while it lasted, but this topic has become wearisome, and frankly there is nothing new to see here, on either side of the debate. Carry open if it's worth the risk to you, don't if it's not.

Peace and good will to all, God bless and may no one here ever have to find out which side of this argument is most correct.

Via Con Dios.

Thars a lot of words just to say no you don't. :D

It's been my observations over the years that most anything negative about gun carry is rooted in anecdote, preconceived notions, emotion/fear, and rarely supported by objective measure. I have found the arguments against OC no exception.
 
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SWAT teams and the military don't call the bad guys an hour before they arrive and tell them how many good guys are coming, what kind of weapons they have, when they'll arrive and from what direction.
They also don't conceal their weapons, so as to appear unarmed, with the intent to tactically surprise them either.

....why would one throw away every "tactical" advantage like that?
You've never established that there is any tactical advantage. You've expressed the opinion of one, but you haven't articulated how waiting until the attack is underway is tactically better than providing an opportunity for it to never happen in the first place.

And I'm sure the first guy who gets distracted by the pack animals of the street...
Why do you insist, beyond all reasonable common sense, that anyone here who has expressed a positive opinion of OC believes they will ALWAYS and ONLY OC? It's not an all or nothing thing.

I don't need lawyers...
You will if you lure a mugger in with CC and have to shoot him. After all, when you're CCing you look exactly the same as any unarmed person on the street to the bad guys.

Peace and good will to all, God bless...
Agreed. :D
 
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Nothing like a new topic for discussion.

sleeping_zps83326d3e.gif
 
And around, and around, and around she goes...

I joined this splendid forum in February of 2013. I can't recall how many times this has been kicked around in that short time, and I always wind up saying the same thing:

My choice is to carry concealed in the good-sized city where I live. I have a lot of carefully thought-out reasons for my decision. Your choice may be open carry, and I assume you've thought that through as well.

Fine. You do what you want and I'll do it the way I prefer. No problem.
 
The OP will decide for himself, what's right for him.

In the mean time.....


I be like ol St. Nick, I'm making a list and checkin er twice....

The list of naysayers is coming together.....

The rest of y'all stand-by for a Big Ol Texas Size BBQ Rig karma,
Open to all those that supports open carry legislation passing in Texas.


Thank You for Your Patience


.
 
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Anyway, my 'truth' is just real world experience, 20 years of LEO work and understanding that thugs jump cops all the time, cops who are in uniform and carrying openly. A Professor may quantify the world from the safety of his office, but in the real world of street criminals, they simply ain't afraid.

I'm not fight picking and don't want to start a flame war. No point, you can't convince a man who thinks the sky is pink it's not. Fair enough. But instead of constantly trying to tear down the argument of someone who simply disagrees, why not approach your position from a common sense point of view?

Just because you have not been targeted doesn't mean you can't be or won't be. The fact you haven't been yet may be more a factor of grace or luck than any towering intimidation over evil doer's that openly carrying presumably offers. Common sense, bro. Why tell anyone what you have, how many rounds you have and where that instrument of defense is?

If you presume you need to carry a weapon because some potential threats exists, why scream out in waves of HD clarity "HERE'S MY GUN, ON MY RIGHT SIDE, IN A NON RETENTION HOLSTER, HERE IT IS. I HAVE A 1911-A1, I HAVE 8 ROUNDS AT MY DISPOSAL. JUST SO YOU KNOW."

SWAT teams and the military don't call the bad guys an hour before they arrive and tell them how many good guys are coming, what kind of weapons they have, when they'll arrive and from what direction. Hate to use a pornographically overused word, but "tactically" speaking, why would one throw away every "tactical" advantage like that? For what? Because "I can."?

For me personally, that's not a good enough reason to risk , even if I'm the first one ever, being an OC that gets keyholed and relieved of my weapon and have it possibly used on me and my spouse. No thanks. My hide and my wife's life are worth a heck of a lot more than "Because I can." And I'm sure the first guy who gets distracted by the pack animals of the street and is being 'degunned' might be thinking "Wait, this never happened before! The stats show this shouldn't be happening!" That'll comfort him, I'm sure.

I don't need lawyers, professors or NRA stats to provide me with common sense. If a predator isn't afraid to jump a cop in uniform, acting under the color of law, who is open carrying, and that attack will bring heavy criminal charges, then he won't have any fear at all about attacking an untrained, average civilian carrying his piece around, not dutifully keeping his 540 perceptual vigilance, walking in 'white mode'.

Simply put, a street carnivore who ain't afraid of 6'1" uniformed street cop or state trooper is NOT going to be afraid of Joe Six pack toting around his plastic Austrian pop gun.

Look, carry openly if you want. Fine. Your skin. But throwing around Internet stats and straw man '2nd Amendment right' arguments can't change the fact that OC throws away the most critical elements of carrying a gun for self protection - anonymity and surprise.

But on this topic, I'm 10-8. The opposition argument can't be said any clearer, and besides I've had my enjoyable fill of "Let's BBQ Anyone That Doesn't March In Lockstep On OC Carry!" It was fun while it lasted, but this topic has become wearisome, and frankly there is nothing new to see here, on either side of the debate. Carry open if it's worth the risk to you, don't if it's not.

Peace and good will to all, God bless and may no one here ever have to find out which side of this argument is most correct.

Via Con Dios.

I have a Masters degree and I couldn't have said that any better! The debate never ends, but I think the OP already expressed the reason why MOST people who OC, actually do it. Because "he can". In MY experience in PA with OC, most of the people who do it (very few. I see maybe 3-4 a year) are doing it "because they can", and they take steps to show the gun. Taking off their jacket when they don't need to, etc, like the soccer mom at her daughters game. I can pogo stick into church but I don't. I can wear a clown costume to parent conferences at my kids school, but I don't.

If OC works for you, then do it. Seems most people in PA,
A very gun friendly state, thinks it's stupid like I do.

As for it being a deterrent, there's no evidence that it is or it isn't. Interviewing some inmates who were caught tells you nothing. What about the ones who weren't caught? Cops get assaulted all the time
And they're armed. Jewelry stores, banks, and armored cars get robbed too. If the bad guy wants what you got, he's not gonna change his mind just because you are armed.

I believe that most people who OC are looking to make a stink and get some attention. The Texas OC activists were led by a guy with a felony record who isn't even allowed to carry concealed.
 
As for it being a deterrent, there's no evidence that it is or it isn't. Interviewing some inmates who were caught tells you nothing. What about the ones who weren't caught?

There is plenty of studied evidence that criminals are deterred both by armed or otherwise potential victims who appear more likely to fight back. You may not like it or wish to agree with it, but why pretend the evidence does not exist?

There are determined criminals who are not going to be deterred by a gun or anything else, and the Wright/Rossi study reflects this. Notice it's not being suggested that 100% of criminals are deterred every time, but rather a significant percentage.

What I have found no evidence of is the notion that it necessarily makes you a target if a criminal knows you are armed. If a rapist knows a woman is armed it makes her a more likely target? Who thinks this way?
 
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I have a Masters degree!


The Texas OC activists were led by a guy with a felony record who isn't even allowed to carry concealed.

[/QUOTE]


Ya got any documentation, court records, etc... on that?

It would be of great interest here, I do believe.

Inquiring minds jest want to know. ;)


.


Maybe OC with a felony is ok :D

But what do I know, college dropout here. :p
 
I'll keep this short. Do whatever makes you feel comfortable (and within the law). Always train whether you CC or OC. If you choose to OC and people are offended, then don't give a ****. Everybody is offended over everything. I stopped caring what others thought a long time ago. OCing is becoming more popular. In the future it won't be a big deal to OC. In the past interracial couples were looked down on. Times change.

If people want to CC, that's fine. If people can OC, that's great. But for gun owners who complain about OCers, well they can just go........ (not worth a ban).
 
Maybe OC with a felony is ok :D

But what do I know, college dropout here. :p

Yeah... let's not get confused about felons not being able to own a gun, they also can't carry it! :D

I'll go out on a limb here and make a wild guess that the claim of being a convicted felon isn't accurate.

Did we ever hear back from him about his ND and the cause of it?
 
I be like ol St. Nick, I'm making a list and checkin er twice....
The list of naysayers is coming together.....

The rest of y'all stand-by for a Big Ol Texas Size BBQ Rig karma,
Open to all those that supports open carry legislation passing in Texas.

Thank You for Your Patience.
Will the Karma post be in this Sub-Forum?
I don't usually read stuff in 'The Lounge'. :)
 
Yeah... let's not get confused about felons not being able to own a gun, they also can't carry it! :D

I'll go out on a limb here and make a wild guess that the claim of being a convicted felon isn't accurate.

Did we ever hear back from him about his ND and the cause of it?

I think folks know what they want to do about CC or OC, without validation from all of us here.

But, all the unsubstantiated claims of this or that, this degree or that,
a couple of mere decades of experience, or what not....


Who was it that observed an individual open carrying a sidearm in a hardware store,
then came on here and declared himself qualified to diagnose mental illness at a mere glance.....

Wonder what his degree was in?

Lots of holes in all this naysaying for sure.


.
 
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Who was it that observed an individual open carrying a sidearm in a hardware store,
then came on here and declared himself qualified to diagnose mental illness at a mere glance.....

Wonder what his degree was in?

Lots of holes in all this naysaying for sure.


.

Yes, I remember the Masters degree's diagnosis on that one. The diagnosis on ND has yet to be revealed. ;)
 
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Will the Karma post be in this Sub-Forum?
I don't usually read stuff in 'The Lounge'. :)


I don't know....I'll have to ask the chief.

As quick as I know, I'll get word to ya.

I may want to get your input on the design as well.

A rig that can be carried everyday and everyway is what I'm thinking.

Open Carry is a personal choice and has it's place in society,
the nicer the rig, the more folks will accept seeing OC in public.

It takes the focus off'n the sidearm and on the fancy leather....Except for that PETA crowd. ;):D


.
 
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Someone said, "obviously unnecessary. " I don't agree.

One reason to open carry is ease of access. You can't deny that the draw is quicker from open carry. Even if it's not faster, it's easier to get to.

Neither can your deny the surprise value of concealed carry. It puts people more at ease.

I prefer concealed carry in town, but open carry out in the wilderness whet the animals aren't intimidated by it.
 
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