Off the wall compatability question

[brokendowncop]

I apologize in advance if I am asking in the wrong section however I don't know where to ask. I am interested in shooting black powder but do not want a cap and ball revolver. I think I know that black powder produces less pressure so any S&W revolver should be stronger than needed but what caliber should I choose. If I get something chambered in .357 is a .38special case long enough to handle the required powder volume in black powder. I used .357 just as an example. I am looking for the pro's recommendations.

Thanks for the help.

Jim

 

[venomballistics]

I'd think your largest issue would be one of data availability.
You know, baseline work you can develop from.
With that, you might think of something in 45 colt.
It started life as a BP round ... transitioned into smokeless ... and makes its way back without issue.

 

[Arik]

Didnt the 38 special start of as a black powder cartridge

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[arjay]

I've been shooting black powder in a colt saa for a few years.Generally,Using a cartridge that was originally bp,the powder fills the case to the bottom of the bullet, if not slightly compressed(no air space). The bullet needs a softer lube though one of the subs seems to be fine with modern lube.Standard primers work well.Don't use a normal powder measure,Static electricity is not good!Clean up is just hot water and soap.The brass needs to go into a cleaning solution ASAP or it discolors.ive been told not to use bp in double action revolvers unless I want to pull the side plate every time and scrub it out.No idea if that's true..

 

[brokendowncop]

I am learning already. Thanks. Makes sense to use a round that started as a BP cartridge. Arjay. Thanks for that information. What cal are you shooting? .45 long Colt? Is the "no air" space the critical factor when loading a case? Do you have any experience with other calibers? 32,38,45

Thanks for the help so far.

Jim

 

[358156hp]

If it's adventure you're looking for, there are a lot of old Colts out there in calibers like 41 Long Colt that are begging for something to do. Some brass is still available, but you'll probably have to cast your own bullets. The 45 Colt would be quicker and cheaper to start with though.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I apologize in advance if I am asking in the wrong section however I don't know where to ask. I am interested in shooting black powder but do not want a cap and ball revolver. I think I know that black powder produces less pressure so any S&W revolver should be stronger than needed but what caliber should I choose. If I get something chambered in .357 is a .38special case long enough to handle the required powder volume in black powder. I used .357 just as an example. I am looking for the pro's recommendations.

Thanks for the help.

Jim

I know very little about black powder, but I seem to recall there being a difference in the cases from black powder days versus smokeless.

While the first thing that came to mind was using a .45 Colt CTG since it was black powder originally, the SECOND thing that came to my mind was something about balloon head cases and the interior dimensions being different on BP versus smokeless powder.

I think maybe there is less internal space now, which, at least with smokeless, would drive pressures up, wouldn't it? I would at least do more research.

Plus, I would not really want all that crud on a revolver designed for smokeless. But, I dislike wasting time cleaning!

 

[arjay]

I am learning already. Thanks. Makes sense to use a round that started as a BP cartridge. Arjay. Thanks for that information. What cal are you shooting? .45 long Colt? Is the "no air" space the critical factor when loading a case? Do you have any experience with other calibers? 32,38,45

Thanks for the help so far.

Jim

The 45 colt is the only one I have personal experience with.My understanding is that airspace can give you a kaboom.Another caution when loading is not to use steel or some plastics as this stuff lights up much easier than smokeless powder.Another is to use bullets that have blackpowder lube,though I've had good results using standard lubed bullets with American Pioneer Powder.I fashioned dippers out of cut down 45 cases with a wire handle soldered to them and they worked well.I believe I learned some of this from a member here (Driftwood Johnson?) several years ago.Its a fun one to fool with,but definitely messy.The cleanup of the gun is easier than smokeless just make sure everything is dry.Very hot water helps as does compressed air.

 

[PERAZZI]

.38-40 , 40-40, and .45 Colt will fill your needs.

I'd suggest finding the SASS forum and ask around there, many there shoot the 'holy black' and have gone to the dark side.

There are excellent SA and DA revolvers out there for BP

 

[rwsmith]

Yes

Didnt the 38 special start of as a black powder cartridge

Yes indeed it did.

 

[2152hq]

You can load any cartridge w/black powder and get reliable results.
Just load the case so that the powder is lightly compressed when the bullet you are using is seated.
A crimp, even a lightly applied one, is best as the BP will burn better when confined.

Lead bullets,,use a B/P lube to keep the fouling soft.
Though hard cast bullets lubed for smokeless loading will work OK for the occasional shooter, softer bullet lead and the special lube helps w/ BP.

The main thing is not to leave any air space in the cartridge between the powder charge and the base of the bullet.
If you want to shoot a reduced load,,use a filler on top of the reduced BP to take up the added space.
Cream-of-Wheat cereal used to be a favorite as it is cheap and compacts well. Some rifle cartridge loads make use of fiber wads to take up the space, sometimes placing a lube wad in between a couple of them.

The 38Special loads very nicely as a BP round. Even the 45acp does too.
I used many of those in a shaved Webley MkIV I had. Some loaded with American Pioneer too which is much cleaner and easier to use.
It'll even function a 1911 semiauto!

 

[johngalt]

Black powder is corrosive. If you shoot it in a modern S&W, you will have to completely strip it down and thoroughly clean it immediately after shooting it. I would not do it.

 

[lebomm]

I had a 4 3/4" Colt Bisley in .44-40. I loaded it with 36.8 gr of FFFg in modern brass, lightly compressed under a 200 gr. Speer JHP. Shot into 4" @25 yds with a most satisfying WHOOMP and cloud of smoke ! Go ahead and use jacketed bullets if you've got 'em. You won't hurt a modern gun doing this, but you'll sho'nuff muck it up !

Larry

 

[Hawker Man]

Look here
Black Powder Cartridge

 

[ArchAngelCD]

While we all know the .38-40, the 44-40, the 45 S&W (45 Schofield) and 45 Colt were all originally Black Powder cartridges so were the 38 S&W and the .38 Special and a few others which will perform quite well with Black Powder today.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Hodgdon has black powder data for revolvers and back in 1974 they came out with Pyrodex, a substitute for the real BP but
it was a lot safer to use.

There are a lot of other brands out now but most loading will be in the FFF style powders for revolvers. This powder will build up over time and cleaning helps with accuracy and after shooting soap and water is needed to clean the weapon. Then
you will need to clean again with solvent and oil to keep your modern weapon in good condition.

I have not shot BP type loads in a long while and you should call the companys to see what they now advise,since there
should be all kinds of new stuff to use today.

Good luck.

 

[walnutred]

I do not load a bunch of BP ctgs anymore but when I did I simply used a powder flask designed for BP revolvers. The spouts are removable and it is a simple matter to buy a spare spout and trim it to the desired length. As has been said a slightly compressed charge is best.

I'm not sure about the complete tear down after every use. When I was shooting Remington 44 clones in CAS when I got home I'd pull the grips, clean the bore with a BP solvent and drop the revolver in a pan of boiling water. After it had boiled for a while I'd fish it out and let it cool, then run patches down the bore until I was sure it was clean. Spray a little lube in the action and work the action until I was sure the lube was distributed. Wipe the bore and outside with a light coating of oil and replace the grips.

The process really sounds like more trouble than it was.

 

[Titegroups]

You might want to opt for a stainless gun to help with the corrosion issues. If it were me id pickup a ruger vaquero, much cheaper than a colt saa and easy to find in 45 colt.

 

[Treeman]

2152hq said things concisely and accurately. BP works easily in almost anything so long as you fill the space and compress slightly. The only issues are fouling and cleanup. The loading is simple.

 

[2152hq]

The extra effort cleaning is just something that goes hand in hand w/ the use of BP no matter what you are shooting it in.
Some guns are easier to handle while cleaning than others, but they all need attention after the use of the stuff. It's corrosive fouling just makes it so.

Using some of the BP substitutes can elliminate a lot of the fouling and let the firearm function better. They are easier to clean up in my experience and are my choice in cartridge arms now.
You still clean with water wet patches and dry and oil. But there's no where near the fouling to deal with. In fact some of the subBP show no more than many smokeless loads.
Colt SAA &Bisley, Webley 455, Win73 in 44-40 all get the American Pinoneer now. So does my 12ga cartridge loads for a Win97.
No rust in the actions and I don't disassemble them nor boil them out after each outing.

I save the real BP for the muzzle loaders now.