Springfeildkid585
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Ohio Police Encounter - Notification
- Thread starter cmort666
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Some people say things they do not mean. Are you willing to lose your permit over not notifying?
What has you afraid to be unarmed for less than five minutes?
If I am pulled over, I will allow my gun to be taken.
When I walk into a court room, I allow my gun to be taken.
When I go inside a jail, I allow my gun to be taken.
It is not a big deal. It does not hurt a bit. YOu get the gun back.
If you shoot someone, you will get your gun taken for a lot longer and your permit will likely be taken as well until the DA says you are cleared.
Guys, there are many things I dislike about the system in various states.
Louisiana requires you produce divorce papers if you have ever in your life been divorced when applying for a permit.
The reason for divorce has nothing to do with getting a firearms permit.
Yet, as with a drivers license, you have to do what is required to get and keep that license. If I need to be disarmed to make someone feel comfortable, then fine. It is better to be disarmed than shot due to a mistaken movement.
In fact, I dislike the permit system and feel it is not needed. Maybe one day it will be done away with. Until that day gets here, we just need to obey the law.
More and more states are adding the notification clause. There are resaons for doing so and until they are removed, I will follow the guidelines. I am not going to pull rank, drop names or whatever to avoid having my weapon taken.
I got a speeding ticket in a city last November. It was a small amount over the limit. The Asst Chief there learned I got it a few weeks later and asked why I did not have the officer call him and avoid the ticket. I did not do so because I was speeding, I was guilty and should not be given special treatment due to job, friends or lodge membership.
Obey the law. If you do not like the law, talk with your lawmakers about repealing the law.
Louisiana requires you produce divorce papers if you have ever in your life been divorced when applying for a permit.
The reason for divorce has nothing to do with getting a firearms permit.
Yet, as with a drivers license, you have to do what is required to get and keep that license. If I need to be disarmed to make someone feel comfortable, then fine. It is better to be disarmed than shot due to a mistaken movement.
In fact, I dislike the permit system and feel it is not needed. Maybe one day it will be done away with. Until that day gets here, we just need to obey the law.
More and more states are adding the notification clause. There are resaons for doing so and until they are removed, I will follow the guidelines. I am not going to pull rank, drop names or whatever to avoid having my weapon taken.
I got a speeding ticket in a city last November. It was a small amount over the limit. The Asst Chief there learned I got it a few weeks later and asked why I did not have the officer call him and avoid the ticket. I did not do so because I was speeding, I was guilty and should not be given special treatment due to job, friends or lodge membership.
Obey the law. If you do not like the law, talk with your lawmakers about repealing the law.
mkk41
US Veteran
Oldman , ya sound like one of the old fashioned GOOD cops. It's good to know there's still a few like you out there. Unfortunately , it's the Ohio guy type that gets all the notariety. And causes the mistrust. But it seems like every other day ya turn on the news and hear of crooked cops. Not just young officers , but old vets. The politics protect them , the unions protects them and the 'blue wall of silence' protects them. Despite the rules , cops still profile people , how they look , how they dress , their vehicles. it just becomes second nature that comes with dealing with people.
I was pulled over on my Harley several years ago by a PA State Trooper with a reputation for disliking bikers. When I pulled my D/L , registration and insurance card out of my wallet , I also pulled my LTCF , which I put back because I didn't have a gun with me. He asked "Is that a gun permit?" . I said yes and he took 2 steps back , grabbed and unsnapped his pistol , and ordered me on the ground. Asked where my pistol was , and I informed him I wasn't carrying one at that time. After a few more questions about where and what guns I have , the local PDs Chief , who I'm friends with , came by and told me to go on my way.
Oldman, it is not "The Law" that you are required to disarm me. Your interpretation is that the Law says if you feel threatened, you have the option of disarming me. You feel that since it is within the realm of possibility that any human may at any time lose their cool, the safe and sane thing is to disarm every citizen who has a gun.
I am not afraid to give up my gun if it is demanded that I do by a policeman, to the contrary, I would be stupid not to. I am saying that a policeman who feels as you do has a serious case of paranoia.
You sound as if you live in fear of a citizen going "Canton" on you each and every time you come across one. And since one-in-a-thousand may, you will take extreme measures to prevent it. I say there is also a one-in-a-thousand chance of a cop acting badly. Should then all cops be disarmed when approaching a traffic stop? After all, the Citizen must be protected, which is a cops job.
That logic is consistent and just as ludicrous.
I am not afraid to give up my gun if it is demanded that I do by a policeman, to the contrary, I would be stupid not to. I am saying that a policeman who feels as you do has a serious case of paranoia.
You sound as if you live in fear of a citizen going "Canton" on you each and every time you come across one. And since one-in-a-thousand may, you will take extreme measures to prevent it. I say there is also a one-in-a-thousand chance of a cop acting badly. Should then all cops be disarmed when approaching a traffic stop? After all, the Citizen must be protected, which is a cops job.
That logic is consistent and just as ludicrous.
alabamabarry
Member
theres a lot of money made that a lot of local P.D.s and S.O.s as so i dont mind how much thay are
OP
cmort666
Member
Evidence?
You keep making this and similar assertions, but you provide no evidence to back them up. In fact, you decline to justify these claims.
That is EXACTLY what I recommended, yet I believe you called me a "lawbreaker". Doesn't that make YOU a "lawbreaker" too?
Please, tell me which "law" we've BOTH now broken.
OP
cmort666
Member
Being negligently shot by a cop trying to figure out how to clear my Norinco M1911 and being killed, or crippled for a lot longer than five minutes.
Unless I'm acting in some reasonably articulable threatening manner, there's no GOOD reason to disarm me during a routine traffic stop... other than paranoia or a dislike or disdain for armed citizens.
ChattanoogaPhil
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C-Phil, I know I said I stepped out of this one a while back, but I think it should be said, especially since you are a Mod:
Aren't there forum restrictions about injecting verifiable facts into a discussion such as this one? Couldn't you lose your Moderator-ship and even be banded for life for presenting factual information, and even providing a link to verify that information? Seems to me like that's dirty pool. There's nothing that squelches an internet rant like a fact.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
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cmort666
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And Texas eliminated the penalty for not notifying.
ChattanoogaPhil
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C-Phil, I know I said I stepped out of this one a while back, but I think it should be said, especially since you are a Mod:
Aren't there forum restrictions about injecting verifiable facts into a discussion such as this one? Couldn't you lose your Moderator-ship and even be banded for life for presenting factual information, and even providing a link to verify that information? Seems to me like that's dirty pool. There's nothing that squelches an internet rant like a fact.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Warning sent ChattanoogaPhil.
See, now you know what a hard man he is. He even dinged himself
OP
cmort666
Member
Care to amend your remarks in light of the world-wide release of the dashcam video, as well as certain pertinent facts regarding Harless's police record?
Of course NONE of those who called Kathryn Johnston a "drug dealer" and said she "had it coming" when she was shot to death had ANYTHING to say AFTER it was revealed that:
- She wasn't a "drug dealer".
- The search warrant for her home was fraudulently obtained via perjury.
- She didn't shoot any cops.
- She was murdered by officers of the Atlanta PD.
- Drugs were planted in her home and perjury suborned from an informant to cover up the murder.
I saw it on another site and it is very disturbing. The officer is clearly out of control and needs to be pulled from duty and taken to a doctor's office and reprogramed as a human. I am saying this in the kindest terms people. This officer lost all control from the moment he got out of his car.
Continuity
We can debate the question of notify - don't notify until the cows come home. What is needed - What we all need is a clear consise law and guidelines in ALL 50 states that we all can live with to end the confusion. There are several benefits to this continuity. First, it eliminates the "tell / don't tell from community to community and state to state. Second, it allows for unniversal training for all LEO's (everyone is on the same page). Third it benefits the CC holder because he is now aware of his responsibilities whether he is in Alabama or Alaska. Fourth, it could lead to the possibility (if worked out correctly) to constitutional carry for the entire United States.
I know people will say that's socialist thinking. OK...but wouldn't it be easier, more comfortable and safer for everyone if when you get pulled over in say Utah and your from Maryland you can legally cc in any state that the LEO is going to proceed exactly the same way as in Maryland and you as a cc holder knows what is expected of you no matter where you are.
As Rodney use to say "I get no respect. I hafta tell ya' or I don't hafta tell ya - jeez. I need a drink"
We can debate the question of notify - don't notify until the cows come home. What is needed - What we all need is a clear consise law and guidelines in ALL 50 states that we all can live with to end the confusion. There are several benefits to this continuity. First, it eliminates the "tell / don't tell from community to community and state to state. Second, it allows for unniversal training for all LEO's (everyone is on the same page). Third it benefits the CC holder because he is now aware of his responsibilities whether he is in Alabama or Alaska. Fourth, it could lead to the possibility (if worked out correctly) to constitutional carry for the entire United States.
I know people will say that's socialist thinking. OK...but wouldn't it be easier, more comfortable and safer for everyone if when you get pulled over in say Utah and your from Maryland you can legally cc in any state that the LEO is going to proceed exactly the same way as in Maryland and you as a cc holder knows what is expected of you no matter where you are.
As Rodney use to say "I get no respect. I hafta tell ya' or I don't hafta tell ya - jeez. I need a drink"
OP
cmort666
Member
The only problem is, who's going to make these "uniform" rules up, Haley Barbour or Rahm Emmanuel?
Remember, Sarah Brady and VPC want "uniform" regulations too...
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cmort666
Member
Something I've been seeing over the past few days is a trickle of posts in various places basically portraying the victim as a "wimp" for not shouting over the cop to notify.
One of the stranger examples was a guy who castigated the victim for not talking over the cop, then in the SAME post characterized Harless as "dangerously insane". Now let me get this straight, I'm supposed to ignore the direct orders of, and shout over, an ARMED man who is acting as though he's "dangerously insane". YOU first.
I suspect that the vast majority of those saying that the victim should have shouted over the hysterical cop ALSO say that you should NEVER "argue with a cop by the side of the road" over the law, even when the cop is dead wrong.
Had the victim followed this "advice" I strongly suspect that we'd now be watching links to video of a tazing, beating or homicide... and they'd STILL say it was the victim's fault.
One of the stranger examples was a guy who castigated the victim for not talking over the cop, then in the SAME post characterized Harless as "dangerously insane". Now let me get this straight, I'm supposed to ignore the direct orders of, and shout over, an ARMED man who is acting as though he's "dangerously insane". YOU first.
I suspect that the vast majority of those saying that the victim should have shouted over the hysterical cop ALSO say that you should NEVER "argue with a cop by the side of the road" over the law, even when the cop is dead wrong.
Had the victim followed this "advice" I strongly suspect that we'd now be watching links to video of a tazing, beating or homicide... and they'd STILL say it was the victim's fault.
Tell that to all the dead or injured cops that were shot by good citizens in a rage. The chances of a cop being shot by a permit holder is slim but then so is getting snake bit while hunting but I am not going in the woods barefooted.
As to the law, some states and I do not know how many, and not going to research the laws of each, requires disarming. I suppose it would be up to the officer if he wanted to do so. If something happened and he survived, I doubt his job would be waiting for him.
I do not deal with that part of the law but I will obey that law. As I stated a long time ago here, I have been stopped by an officer that did not know me for speeding. I allowed him to take my weapon. My hair looked nice, I was wearing a high priced suit, my western boots were shined and I did not look like a ruffian. He felt better taking my gun and if it made him feel better, then fine. It was comical when he returned it in the way that he had to move a gun to put mine under the seat. I did not get a ticket from him and was thanked for my attitude. Two weeks later he was sitting in a class I was teaching and remembered me.
I hate to say it but it appears some here are young with attitudes. Those in that group will not have their permits long. Seen it too often. They carry where they should not, they get an attitude with an officer on a traffic stop, they try to be an officer when they see a fight brewing while out with their girlfriends, wives or best buds to impress. I have the stats for a couple states as to why permits were suspended or revoked. The reasons are almost predictable. Yet you cannot tell these young guys about it. They have tunnel vision and it will be a few years before they vision is broadened.
I am not knocking anyone here. There is nobody on this forum I would not sit down with and buy them a cup of coffee. Depending on their attitude, I might even take them to an air condtioned indoor range with electronic targets.
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cmort666
Member
So then similarly, I shouldn't trust police with guns because of:
Kathryn Johnston
Michael Pleasance
Patrick Dorismond
Amadou Diallo
Ronald Madison
etc., etc., etc.
Right?
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cmort666
Member
I'm by no means "young", and as I've previously noted, you're pretty free with the assertions and accusations, but pretty stingy with the evidence.
If 53 years have taught me anything, it's to not blindly take people's word for things, especially when i KNOW from experience that they're WRONG. When they REFUSE to provide proof for their claims, that only reinforces that lesson.
If that means I've got an "attitude", I'll PROUDLY own that.
How come we don't cede some of our rights to fishermen, loggers, truck drivers, etc, as well. If we're going to use the dangerous argument as to why we give away rights. All have more jobs as dangerous as police. Equal protection?
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cmort666
Member
If the dangerousness of the job was the sole criterion, convenience store cashiers would have the power of summary execution, like field grade South Korean army officers during the era of martial law.
Did I just enter the Twilight Zone?
I believe so. Asking tough questions is way out there.Did I just enter the Twilight Zone?
When?
Not according to Texas DPS.
When was this supposed to have happened?
I will be spending time with a DPS Supervisor on Wednesday. Maybe he can tell me when this took place.
Photoman44, who lives in texas, posted as such in one of these elongated threads
Actually here it is in one of our shorter "discussions"
http://smith-wessonforum.com/concealed-carry-self-defense/201098-duty-inform.html
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cmort666
Member
Sorry, no answers until you clear up the backlog of questions that people have asked you, starting with with your basis for calling me a "lawbreaker".
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