Last weekend I had my first squib. I chalked it up to a missed powder drop. This weekend I had my second squib. This one didn't make it very far past the forcing cone. Last week's squib almost made it out of a 4" barrel. These were 7.5 grains of 2400 with a Rainer's 158 jacketed hollow points. They both came out of the same batch. I was using some newly purchased Winchester small pistol primers. Except! I ran out of those primers and instead of getting up and getting some more out of the cabinet I had some CCI SPP sitting nearby, but these were older. I had bought at a garage sale with some other reloading supplies. I know there old but they were in a box and didn't show any signs of contamination. I went ahead and used them. I suspect these are the cause of the Squibs. I had some powder on the second squib that hadn't been burned. It came out when I opened the cylinder. I don't think they are all bad but some are. Do you think that this could cause a squib? Should I pull the other 300 rounds? I only used 100 of the CCI primers and they all look the same now.
Old primer question
- Thread starter 99bob
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I doubt the problem lies with the primers. What caliber is this? I would assume .38 or .357. I think 7.5 grains of 2400 is pretty light and may not be igniting well. I'd prefer Unique as an alternative, in an appropiate amount.. not 7.5 grains BTW.
Bruce51
Member
99bob. I have never had a primer go bad and have had bad looking primers work perfectly. A squib load can also happen if your bullet jumps the crimp. At what time did you have the squib? Was it the first round second, third. If it was the third or fourth shot I would be checking for some loose bullets. Have you used the Rainier bullets previously? Getting just the right amount of crimp on the plated bullet is important. Check your loaded ammo by pushing the bullet against your bench to make sure it is tight.
You can also check a few primers by firing them in a case without a charge. If you have a misfire then maybe you do have some bad primers.
I have found it is very hard to kill a primer. I have even soaked them with oil and WD 40 and they still went off.
Check your ammo and let us know what you find out.
Bruce
Actually the fact that the bullet left the cylinder is a good indication that the primer did indeed fire. The unburned powder indicates it was not contained enough to build pressure.
You can also check a few primers by firing them in a case without a charge. If you have a misfire then maybe you do have some bad primers.
I have found it is very hard to kill a primer. I have even soaked them with oil and WD 40 and they still went off.
Check your ammo and let us know what you find out.
Bruce
Actually the fact that the bullet left the cylinder is a good indication that the primer did indeed fire. The unburned powder indicates it was not contained enough to build pressure.
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It's a .38 Special. I don't think it's a light load for a .38 special.
Bruce51
Member
My older manual list a start load of 10 grains of 2400 with a 158LSWC.
If anything your load is too light.
You would get better results with 5 grains of Unique or 3.5 grains of Bullseye.
Bruce
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Good point. It was the first round in the cylinder. I did note that the casing the had the squib had a weak crimp considering the bullet was pushed out. I believe you have identified the problem.
Your input is welcome but the data I used is below. 10 grains would be very high compared to this.
158-160 grain JHP or JSP (Jacketed Hollow or Soft Point)
Bullseye 3.5 gr. 805 FPS
Unique 4.2 gr. 800
2400 7.6 gr. 850
Universal 4.4 gr. 778
HP38 3.7 gr. 819
HS6 6.5 gr. 914
No. 2 4.0 gr. 756
No. 5 5.8 gr. 841
231 (+P) 4.4 gr. 720*
540 (+P) 6.6 gr. 800*
2400 (+P) 7.8 gr. 910*
Unique(+P) 4.4 gr. 885*
* All PLUS P loads for guns designed for it (20,000 PSI)
Also this
38 Special +P, 158 gr
LSWC 7.8 gr 2400 1,035 fps 1.42" Fed 100 Alliant
Suggested starting load: 7.0 gr
Pressure: 17,400
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Bruce51
Member
Use the data you feel is most appropriate. Work up your loads in a safe manner. I don't use 2400 so I should not comment on safe load levels for that powder.
For shooting .38 Specials it is a waste to use 2400. Save that for the magnum loads.
Older manuals list different and higher charge weights.
I was shootin 5 grains of Unique and 158JHP in a J frame last week.
Never a problem.
Speer quit listing loads for 38 Special 158JHP do to stuck bullet issues.
Or so they say.
Rainiers are made to use lead bullet data so start there and
find out what works for you.
Bruce
I went through several manuals and really only found one with a 38 load listed for 2400. Many here could probably guess which book.
It confirms for me that it is not the best choice for the 38.
My Lyman #45 does indeed list a load for 2400 with a 158gr cast bullet.
The start load of 8 grains gave 690fps out of a 6" S&W model 14.
I can only imagine what a 7.5gr load would do. You might just stick a bullet in the bore.
For shooting .38 Specials it is a waste to use 2400. Save that for the magnum loads.
Older manuals list different and higher charge weights.
I was shootin 5 grains of Unique and 158JHP in a J frame last week.
Never a problem.
Speer quit listing loads for 38 Special 158JHP do to stuck bullet issues.
Or so they say.
Rainiers are made to use lead bullet data so start there and
find out what works for you.
Bruce
I went through several manuals and really only found one with a 38 load listed for 2400. Many here could probably guess which book.
It confirms for me that it is not the best choice for the 38.
My Lyman #45 does indeed list a load for 2400 with a 158gr cast bullet.
The start load of 8 grains gave 690fps out of a 6" S&W model 14.
I can only imagine what a 7.5gr load would do. You might just stick a bullet in the bore.
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Bruce51
Member
I edited my previous post after some research.
Your data looks like it's the new and improved safer reloads.
I would suggest you find a variety of new and older manuals and look over the data listed. It's quite an eye opener on how data which most of us started with is no longer listed. Some for good reasons.
Still the standard 3.5grs of BE and a 158L bullet will always work.
Good luck, Bruce
Your data looks like it's the new and improved safer reloads.
I would suggest you find a variety of new and older manuals and look over the data listed. It's quite an eye opener on how data which most of us started with is no longer listed. Some for good reasons.
Still the standard 3.5grs of BE and a 158L bullet will always work.
Good luck, Bruce
duckloads
Member
I just looked at Alliant's website and Handloads.com. I can't find any data for 158gr Jacketed bullet with 2400 in 38spl +p.
Thanks Bruce for the help. I've determined that I fouled things up by getting my load of the net, not fully understanding the value of case trimming, and getting sloppy with my crimp. I also was just so happy how the 2400 powder dropped out of my powder drop. I just had to find a load for .38 Special+p. I just wanted one powder for all my needs.
Bruce51
Member
I have found very good online load data. It's always best to look at as much data as one can find. I still check and recheck data for loads even if I think I know the answer. Your post and others often sends me back to the books for data that worked in the past. I was really curious about 2400 loads in a 38 as I only think of it as a magnum load powder.
My Speer #14 list a plus 38 Special+P load for a 146gr jacketed bullet with 2400.
This is the latest manual out from Speer.
They list a start load of 8.3gr at 836fps
Top load is 9grs at 952fps
I list that only as an example that 2400 can be used in a 38.
Bullseye,Unique,Titegroup,231 and other powders will also work very well.
No single powder will do everything. Also be sure to get your crimping done correctly.
Bruce
My Speer #14 list a plus 38 Special+P load for a 146gr jacketed bullet with 2400.
This is the latest manual out from Speer.
They list a start load of 8.3gr at 836fps
Top load is 9grs at 952fps
I list that only as an example that 2400 can be used in a 38.
Bullseye,Unique,Titegroup,231 and other powders will also work very well.
No single powder will do everything. Also be sure to get your crimping done correctly.
Bruce
Power pistol meters very well, and Alliant lists 6grs with a Speer 158gr swc as +P, at over 1,000 fps, in their online data.
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