I have aquired this old top break I want to clean up as much as possible. The trigger return spring is broken and the firing pin is quite rusted. I have not been able to get close as to which model it is. It is a 38 top brake and the serial number is under the grip on the frame. The only other marking is on top of the barrel as shown. I would like to find out the information and learn how to remove the firing pin if it can be removed. The spring behind the firing pin still seems to function as needed. Any insight or information is greatly appriciated.
Old Top Break
- Thread starter Briggz1
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A common foreign copy. Could be Spanish. Not worth fixing.
As mentioned, it's not a S&W. I do find the twisted main spring interesting though.
Welcome back to the Forum! As others have stated, you don't have a S&W top break revolver...you have a foreign copy. Back in the day, both foreign and USA revolver manufacturers copied the S&W designs and made cheap replicas. They would shoot OK, but they were not the most dependable or well made revolvers. Years ago a friend asked me to clean up an old top break revolver that his grandfather had hanging in a frame on an outside wall. It was an Iver Johnson top break, basically a S&W copy, in worse condition than your revolver. It had hard rubber Iver Johnson "Owl" grips, similar to the grips (Spanish?) on yours. These molded hard rubber grips were pretty standard on copies as well as on S&Ws...usually only the monograms and decoration around the grip screw were specific to individual manufacturers. I haven't a clue as to who manufactured your revolver. I cleaned up my friend's revolver the best I could by soaking it in a mix of ATF & acetone, then gently polishing it with Flitz Polish and a microfiber cloth, and finished with some Renaissance Wax. I told him to hang it back up on the wall and consider it a family conversation piece. Finding any replacement parts for your revolver may prove very difficult, but you might get lucky. I would suggest just soak it (should free up any rusted parts), polish it up, put it back together, and enjoy looking at it. Good luck, and have fun!
Thank you for your response, it is most helpful. The intent was to clean it and maybe replace the trigger return spring which is broken, I have never seen one this flimsy, then put it in a display case with some of guns I own. Not only that but the hammer return spring is like nothing I have ever seen before. I reached out to Wolff Springs to see if there was a name for this type of spring. Lastly the design around the grip screw is the same as Andrew Fryberg's but nothing else on the gun indicates that, and the design at the top of the grip is the three cursive S's his has similar font different letters. Thanks so much, half the fun of cleaning these up and displaying them is researching and learning about them.
Definitely a Spanish copy. Finding replacements for broken parts on these old revolvers is usually next to impossible because... they were the ones that always broke. Clean it up and put it in a shadow box.
John
John
Thank you for your insight, I think I will do just that. I will say it has been an education for me looking into this. This won't be my last I'm sure. Thanks again to everyone!
A belated "Welcome to the Forum".
You might find the videos of Filipino black market gun manufacturers interesting. These are home smiths with the simplest of tools who produce copies of well known firearms.
They make nearly every part by hand and produce working firearms. The quality isn't the same and I would not want one, but the patience and raw skill needed to make a pistol from scratch is remarkable.
Well, I found out what it is. It is an Iver Johnson U.S. Revolver Co. Secret Service Special made for Fred Biffar Co. in Chicago, Il. There are many parts missing and the main spring best we can tell is a home made replacement. Nice thing is I was able to find all the parts needed to put it back to as close to original as can be. The interesting thing I have not found any real information on the the serial # C1005. It appears under the grip, at the bottom of the grip guard and on the barrel under the barrel release. Then it will go on display with some other very interesting guns. Just thought I would share, any information is welcome.
alanfir
Member
Serial # C1005 in the U.S. Revolver Series dates to 1917. Iver Johnson had two contracts for the Secret Service Special. The first was 1917 and the second was 1923. The 1917 contract group had a special safety on the frame and the 1923 contract group did not have the safety.
Thank you for this information, I do have one question. The safety on the frame I do not have any thing that I recognize as a safety. Is there something in the images that you can see that would show that? Thank again for your insight I am grateful for your knowledge and assistance.
alanfir
Member
It would seem to be a Secret Service Special from the second 1923 contract without the frame mounted safety. It is possible that Iver Johnson had an earlier made U.S. Revolver in stock to use for the 1923 contract.
Thank you sir!
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