** Once and for all: POA of a fullsized M&P 40 **

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mrrstrat

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Like most people, I like the M&P 40 and the others (MP9, shield,..) lots. But the POA plagues me as it does others.

I am ex-military, ex-military law enforcement, expert with the .45 and most guns I shoot.

I have been treating it like a target pistol and then shooting it like a 1911 and I get a range of results (mostly low shots).

Now I just read that you are supposed to use the dots and not the top rail of the sights (with the dots being used as a quick way to align the sights).

I have been aligning the dots and placing the top of the sight line across/through and center mass of my target.

What is the preferred way for holding and sighting?? I feel like I am back in noob school asking such a silly question but many seem to ask it with respect to the M&P series......
 
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Using #2 is what I was trained to do but does *not* seem to work as the shots are lower.

I would be interested in what the law enforcement community that uses and trains with the M&P 9 and M&P 40 are taught...

I have changed the handgrips and found I can get better placement with the biggest handgrip - and feels the best in my hands. I think I should be using the medium one, but the biggest one seats it better for a 1911-type trigger squeeze.

Can anyone using one of these for a duty weapon chime in?
 
Here you go.

0328b6a7c76dba46f36ee7b4cfb26615.jpg


Try this, cover the dots with black tape and shoot as you were taught. That will tell you what the POI is vs POA. I've read that some don't care for dots and color them permanently.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
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How the sights are to be used is the best info :-)

If someone knows how they were designed to be used to chime in would be great and solve this mystery once and for all.
 
I do believe #3 is proper with M&P pistols. #2 is what I prefer for target shooting but these are nt target pistols. In a SD instance the dot is a lot faster to find and get on target.
 
For any of my Shields, I use a Sharpie to blacken the dots on the rear sight and leave the front dot white or put a dab of florescent green paint over the white dot at the front. I am perfectly happy to keep all my shots in the bottom of a small (8") paper plate at whatever range I fire the weapons, quickly or slowly. These are intended to be used as personal protection firearms, not target shooters. Understand, I like my groupings to be as small as I can make them, but especially at closer ranges as from 7 yards in, I look through the rear sight to the dot on the front sight and keep that front sight inside that small paper plate to the best of my ability. I have fired careful single rounds to satisfy myself of the point of impact with the front dot held squarely and centered on the place I would like the round to strike. This tells me where that POI is and allows me to know that my gun will do what I intend for it to do. From there, I seldom ever fire one round at a time. From 2 or 3 rounds to a full mag, fired as quickly as I can keep the gun under control and that front sight where I want it. Few of us have fired many rounds while being fired upon. Trust me, if someone is pointing a gun at you or is about to do so, you will be looking at that gun!! If you can maintain enough self control under those circumstances to visualize that small paper plate center mass or covering the face of the predator, and you send several rounds to that location, you will have done well! At least, that has been my experience. Take it for what it's worth.
 
mrrstrat said:
Using #2 is what I was trained to do but does *not* seem to work as the shots are lower.
Click to expand...

I have the same issue, I believe the front sight is too tall.

Every pistol & revolver I've ever owned shoot POA/ POI
with sight picture #2 above.

This includes Glock, Sig, Beretta and all my Colt 1911's.
 
Thanks guys - I am hoping that someone else searching for this elusive and simple answer finds this thread :-)

Did I mention that the M&P pistol pattern is a GREAT firearm pattern?
 
To me #1 is a target hold (when actually shooting at a paper target with a bullseye) The size of the 7 thru 10 ring is standard on competition targets (adjusted for ranges of 50 ft, 25 yds and 50 yds. Same for metric. The object is to not lose the front sight in the black of the bull.
Adjustable sights can be set to accommodate these sizes.

#2 is the standard COM hold. you put the sights where you want the POI to be.

#3 seems to be some sort of a hybrid using the dots instead of the actual shape of the sight. I would imagine in low light conditions this is great. However having the notch and blade partially obscure your target and having to "look around" or through the existing hard sight to see your target could be disconcerting.

At least it seems that way to me, but I'm a died in the wool target shooter and may be too old to change....;)
 
YMMV but for me it ends up being #1 for 5" pro/L pistols, #2 for full size 4.25", and #3 for compacts.

I guess that makes sense because I think S&W uses the same night sights at the factory, the exception being if you keep the stock .180" fiber optic on the pro it still uses sight picture #2.

Feel free to correct me if I'm off base here, but owning all 3 barrel lengths that's my experience. I actually dislike using #3 on the compact and have been searching for a good night sight set with a shorter front sight for the compact, but haven't really found one.

This is at 15-25 yards. Inside of that any of the sight pictures probably work equally well.
 
Number 3 in Kodiakco's post is what I use on all 4 of my M&P's. Works great when I do my part. I understand the confusion though. I had a bit of a hard time with it also.
 
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mrrstrat said:
How the sights are to be used is the best info :-)

If someone knows how they were designed to be used to chime in would be great and solve this mystery once and for all.
Click to expand...
The question no one has asked is, how low are you hitting and at what distance?

The sights are intended to be used as in #2; top of front sight lined up with top of rear sight and equal daylight on either side.

For those suggesting #3, I submit this picture:
SightPictureDotnobackgroundsmall_zpsfe791a09.jpg

This is a real picture of a real M&P; not a drawing. Notice how the front sight looks smaller than the rear. That is not how it is depicted in the drawing. So, how do you line up the dots? Put the front in the middle, at the top or at the bottom of the rear dots?

Further, notice that in the pic the front dot is near the top of the rear dots. This is the only sight picture that will align the tops of the sights. If you were to put it in the middle of the rear, the gun would actually shoot lower.

Now, it's important to understand that this is really a moot point. If the dots really did look like the drawing posted above, all the same size, but you were supposed to use the top of the sights, the actual difference in POI would be insignificant; less than 1/4". Most POI issues with the M&P line are shooter induced.
 
Rastoff.

That's the sight picture I use. (#2)

From 5 yards to 15 yards all shots were dead center
but 2" low. I had to aim high to get a bull.

This was from a rest. All my other pistols shoot POA
not low like the M&P. I am trying to find out if S&W has
a lower front sight availible.
 
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Thanks for starting this thread... I'm not sure how I have been lining up my sights on my M&P9pc 5". But I do shoot it well. Now this gives me a very good reason to hit the range to see what I'm doing.....LOL ...I'll report back!
 
Its nice to discuss and compare with others but the truth is it doesnt matter what POA others are using, only what works for you. Try different sight pictures for yourself and see which shot groups work best for your gun, ammo and distance to target. If the POA for your best shot groups isnt the sight pic you want to continue to use then consider changing sights to get what works best for you
 
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