One More Lock Thread...With a Twist!

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MBaneACP

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We were filming an episode of SHOOTING GALLERY for 2010 today, and late this afternoon I started to put some Remington 240-gr .44 Magnum loads through my 329PD. This is the same gun I had a lock failure with using Buffalo Bore 255-gr Keith loads. I have since put many .44 Specials though the 329, along with a few Black Hills 240-gr JHP magnums, without incident.

On round 3 in a DA string, I experienced a lock failure of the same sort as before — the "locked" flag popped up and hung the hammer as it fell, causing a jam with a live round in the chamber.

We caught this one on 2 HD cameras, with my 2 videographers, sound man, director and production assistant as witnesses. I took the gun over to Camera 1 and showed exactly how the jam happened, then cleared the jam on camera with a multitool.

It's going to take us a little time to capture the HD footage and convert it to an MPEG for the web. As soon as I have the footage, we'll post it on DRTV and make it available to the S&W Forum.

Michael B
 
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Post it on The Firing Line forum. There are a lot of failure non-believers there.
 
I had heard of failures before, IMO when I get a 442 or any other S&W with that usless lock I am going to remove it please post the video
 
A video of the mythical lock failure? You jest, Sir. What else is on that tape? Bigfoot? Aliens at Area 51? Nessie floating on the surface and sunning herself?

Actually, I think its amazing that you caught it on tape, and, thank you. I was never really that worried about the lock failing, there have been a few reports here and there, but, I hated it for what it did for the looks of a grand old design. You having actually filmed it, while doing nothing wierd to the gun, simply shooting it, as it was designed to do, adds considerable concern as far as I am concerned.
 
Michael, Thanks for the post, I too DVR all of the shows on Weds. Keep up the great work. Now you have caused me to take a second look at the lock issues.
 
Please post and tell us where it is. My dear wife can not understand why I buy only "old S&W revolvers". Your show and you have an outstanding reputation. This event captured on film will help convince the S&W corporate office that the locks do fail.
 
Even with video, there will probably still be people on this board who don't believe it happened........or will claim some other cause. Regards 18DAI.
 
you will always have your disbelievers but yeah send it in for the simple reason non lock guns are getting expensive. would be nice for a newbie smith enthusiast to have the thrill of buying a new gun like it was the 70's all over. ............now mind if i get lazy and ask the title of this show and broadcast times? I watch very little of the outdoor channel. thanks
 
I wonder if sponsorship or whoever the "powers that be" are might take a dim view of your lock failure segment.
I'm a fan of all the Outdoor channel programs, hunting and self-defense shows. Smith & Wesson is always a prominent advertiser. If you have final say on the content of your show, please give this the attention it deserves.
I hope to see the video and your commentary on your show and not just on the S&W Forum.
Thank you Mr. Bane

GF
 
HoosierMike said:
Mr. Bane, thank you in advance for sharing the video. I am sure that it will be instructive.

Love your shows, never miss them.
Click to expand...

+1 Sir !

And thanks for your work on this issue Mr. Bane. It would be a great thing if S & W would be proactive after seeing your work and correct / eliminate this danger for the benefit and safety of thier customers.
 
I have several IL revolvers but the locks are a non-issue, because they're disabled. It's a simple job for anybody who knows how to remove the sideplate and hammer. If you don't know how to do it you should, so buy a couple of screwdrivers and a book or DVD. I can't even imagine owning and using a gun I can't disassemble and put back together again. Or maintain, repair and make simple changes to.
 
Excellent, that will be hard for S&W to ignore. Thanks for doing that and thanks for your shows too! I watch them all the time now that I switched to FIOS.
 
Awe Come on now! You know those locks NEVER fail. Just ask anyone at S&W. They wouldnt lead us astray....would they! :)
 
Internal Lock Failure

Thanks to you, Mr. Bane and The Outdoor Channel for the pro-gun entertainment, I personally find it refreshing to hear the truth coming from the tv for a change. My pre-conceived notions have already prevented me from owning anything with an engineered internal lock but your personal experience coupled with the credibility you have may induce the powers that be to further investigate their folly. We all are very interested in seeing the video you have and having it published for the shooting world to see. An "Heads Up" as to the air time is eagerly awaited. I thank you , Sir.
 
Thanks for taking the time to let us know about this Mr. Bane. Look forward to seeing the video. Never heard of this kind of lock issue before.
 
Be sure to send a copy or the resulting link to Charles Petty!
 
zephyr said:
that will be hard for S&W to ignore.
Click to expand...

Want to bet on that? They'd probably respond that its the first incident they've seen of it. Then suggest the gun was somehow doctored with or the ammo was the problem. I'd think we now have an unfavorable government. They probably don't have a "plan B" if they took the lock out. Its a lousy answer to a non-existent problem, but its their answer.

Companies aren't real open or honest when it comes to product defects. Even if they're aware of problems, they don't want to let it be known. Too much potential liability.
 
rburg said:
Companies aren't real open or honest when it comes to product defects. Even if they're aware of problems, they don't want to let it be known. Too much potential liability.
Click to expand...

AMEN
Their attitude is what do you mean its broke? It can't be, I said so.
 
Mr. Bane - I just want to say THANK YOU. Video of a lock failure is one of the best things that can bring S&W to their senses. Great work!

I feel like a lot of people (less so on this forum, but more so on others) are missing the point on the internal lock. A lot of people seem to only think "the lock is bad because it can fail." Yes, that is true, but I would still HATE the lock and refuse to by S&W's with locks even if the lock was a perfect, failure proof design.

First, the lock is contrary to safe firearm use and ownership. Now, novice users may rely on the lock rather than "always treating a gun as loaded." Second, if someone wants to lock a gun to prevent unauthorized use, a trigger lock is a far more effective. Again, a novice may use the internal lock only to have an unauthorized user overcome the internal lock with simple tools. It is much harder to defeat a quality aftermarket trigger lock or safe. The conclusion I draw is that the S&W internal lock actually will cause more accidents (or negligent incidents) to occur.

Another PERFECTLY VALID case against the lock is it ruins the AESTHETICS of a work of functional art. I buy and love S&W's because I think they are beautiful pieces of American history. They are indeed tools as well - but not JUST tools - they are more than that to me!

Ok, rant over. I am not trying to hijack this very good thread, I am simply responding to what I perceive is an over emphasis on only the functionality of the lock. After all, if S&W fixed the failure issue but left the ugly key hole, how many of us would be happy? Not me!
 
I would like to think that it will make a difference, but I am not hopeful. It is nice to have it proven and documented though.

There is no doubt in my mind that the lock constitutes a design defect, but if they change it now they are admitting the fact and would have to do something about it. I don't think they have the money to recall every revolver with a lock and I don't think they have an alternative design.

I think they will just ignore the problem on the theory that if someone is killed by a criminal because their S&W revolver failed they can say that they were killed by the criminal and that the defect in the victims gun was secondary and they can weasel out of it with a settlement if they have to for less than a recall.

I wish corporations had a moral sense instead of an income statement.
 
rburg said:
Want to bet on that? They'd probably respond that its the first incident they've seen of it. Then suggest the gun was somehow doctored with or the ammo was the problem. I'd think we now have an unfavorable government. They probably don't have a "plan B" if they took the lock out. Its a lousy answer to a non-existent problem, but its their answer.

Companies aren't real open or honest when it comes to product defects. Even if they're aware of problems, they don't want to let it be known. Too much potential liability.
Click to expand...

+1
 
rburg said:
. . . They probably don't have a "plan B" if they took the lock out. . . . Too much potential liability.
Click to expand...

I would be willing to bet that they are VERY aware of how unpopular the IL is and that they have 'war-gamed' how to implement plans B, C, D, and E. Nevertheless, it would be difficult to say the least to put that genie back into the bottle in today's world of product liability (hopefully not impossible).

Thanks, Mr. Bane for bringing this to forefront (sorry about your gun). BTW, this second season of Best Defense is awesome! I like the approach.
 
They are ALREADY MAKING AND SELLING LOCK FREE HANDGUNS. Guess liability doesn't prevent that. They could offer a choice. Only then would the lock truly "not be an issue".
 
What they should do is offer no lock gun but sell the lock models to those who wanted them or those states like CA,NY,MA,MD that have restrictive gun laws.
 
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