Open Carry Incident.......

[feralmerril]

My atv club had a ride from here at cedar city utah over the mountains to panguitch and thats a popular tourist town as its near bryce canyon NP. There had been a lot of cartel pot farms raided and several found in that area. I had a .357 lever rifle. Everyone wanted to go to a BBQ restaurant so as I wouldn't leave my rifle unattended on the quad I sent theresa in to get permission to bring it in from the owner before just carrying it in. The owner is a quad rider and probley cowboy raised in the area so no problem. Its the type that has elk and deer heads mounted on the walls with branding irons etc. There was a crowd of young college type tourists in there and they asked me was I deer hunting. I said no, but there was a chance of running into cartel drug farms as some had been busted just lately in the areas we rode through. I think I spiced up their trip. I am sure some or most of us were also "discreetly" packing sidearms too. We can legaly open carry but most of us will pull a shirt over it or put it in a bag on the quads in town. The rifle I couldnt hide though. I do have one acquaintance I ride with that wont cover his but he`s a little "different".

 

[TheYoungblood]

I cannot find enough facepalms jpeg(s) to express my head shaking over his decision. This is not like walking home from hunting/range/broke down vehicle and someone calling swat into action to locate the rifle carrying camo wearing man along road. This man went into a MALL with rifle on the shoulder. Seriously, what da *** ?

 

[Pete99004]

To me it's a bit confusing - if he was legal then why would the police charge him? Seems to me that the person disturbing the peace is the person who called the police. If I see someone carrying his rifle slung over his shoulder, and a shopping bag in one hand and a soft drink in the other I'm not calling the law to come and check it out - who in their right mind would? I however would have my rifle in a carry case as I'm sure most folks would - still - it seems to me that they charged the wrong person.

Pete

 

[finesse_r]

What happens if he should decide to shift it to the other shoulder? LOL Almost any adjustment he made to that AR is going to appear somewhat threatening to some of the people around. One wrong move and he could have had half a dozen concealed carry guns suddenly appear pointed at him.

I know if I saw someone walking into a crowded area like a mall with an AR-15 my eyes are not leaving him until he is gone, and my right hand would be poised to draw. Too many things that could happen in that situation.

 

[steelslaver]

No, mall here but, I got to talking to a guy in the parking lot of a local store during hunting season and he drug out his AR based 308 and let me look it over. Nobody around here would even think anything about it. I have walked into gas stations, restaurants and parts houses around here during hunting season and nobody cares. Even off season people would notice and just shrug and think the guy just came off the range or the ranch. No way I would do it in a city mall even in Montana.

But, you have got to think about what your doing, when in Rome------.

 

[Texas Star]

I bet he loses his business lease.

This isn't Switzerland or Israel, where you might see citizen soldiers walking around in civvies with assault rifles on them.

I saw a good pic on the Net of three chicks with M-16's in an ice cream shop. It turned out to be from Israel.

Oh: body language counts for a lot if you see someone with a slung (not "slug" as one poster said) rifle on his/her shoulder. If you can read people well, you can usually tell which ones are a threat. But anyone taking a rifle or shotgun to a store really needs to carry it in a case. In some states, I'd want a case that didn't scream FIREARM to bystanders.

In fact, I wear my lockblade folding knife in a plain black Cordura pouch that might well contain a cell phone. Wearing it in a floral carved cowboy-looking knife pouch just draws unwanted attention, especially as I don't dress like a truck driver. Those who do can get away with that, because it suits their image and the public here usually filters out the sight of the knife on their belts. That might not fly in some PC states.

 

[feralmerril]

He still hasnt been convicted. I suspect the DA will throw out the case and it probley wont go to court. If it does theres chance he will win. In reality arent we just getting excited about how that particular cop views the law? Doest mean he`s right or will win. Still, knowing human nature I believe its dumb, law or no law carrying it like that in a mall. Common sense should tell you that there would be some libs and gun haters in crowds of 500 or so people. A year or two ago there was a group of people that decided to demonstrate their rights by wearing guns all at the same time. Cant remember where it was but it was interesting. Maybe there is something to the idea that if you dont exercise your rights you will lose them.

 

[Fishslayer]

Lets give him a chance to say what he meant.

Actually, Finesse pretty much nailed it. Close enough, anyway. Saves me some typing.

And yeah, the guy carrying the rifle is a bit of a d'bag. BUT... what he was doing was legal.

I think he was referring to those who elected to become alarmed by the open carry, not the person carrying the gun. Also he was talking about the general Kalifornia mentality as it applies to guns. Also he is right. Texas is the fastest growing state in population and it is due to immigrants from other states and nations. Texas is fast becoming something totally different from the Texas of a few decades ago. And that is truly sad to see.

 

[Fishslayer]

Lets give him a chance to say what he meant.

Actually, Finesse pretty much nailed. Close enough, anyway. Saves me some typing.

And yeah, the guy carrying the rifle is a bit of a d'bag. BUT... what he was doing was legal.

I think he was referring to those who elected to become alarmed by the open carry, not the person carrying the gun. Also he was talking about the general Kalifornia mentality as it applies to guns. Also he is right. Texas is the fastest growing state in population and it is due to immigrants from other states and nations. Texas is fast becoming something totally different from the Texas of a few decades ago. And that is truly sad to see.

A year or two ago there was a group of people that decided to demonstrate their rights by wearing guns all at the same time. Cant remember where it was but it was interesting. Maybe there is something to the idea that if you dont exercise your rights you will lose them.

That would be Kalifornistan. We used to have legal unloaded open carry for rifles & pistols. The wisdom of that sort of carry aside, some people decided to make their point.

The result was that open carry was outlawed last year.

 

[feralmerril]

I recall the demonstrative event but wasnt aware that it was in california and the result attributed for it. Part of the reason I left california in 2005 was especially the bad gun laws and it seems its squared itself for the worse since I left. Thats a good (bad) example of trying people out. Like the bible says if you wring someone`s nose, it bringth forth blood.

 

[BC38]

The guy is an IDIOT in my book. Obviously his actions weren't illegal, but with the number of incidents of nut-jobs "going postal" and shooting multiple innocent people in public places, his behavior was irresponsible in the extreme.

To think even for one moment that walking through the mall carrying a military looking firearm WOULDN'T terrorize the soccer mommies, elderly power walkers, and teeny bopper crowds is the epitome of a lack of common sense.

Of course carrying an AR-15 into a crowded public place is going to disturb the peace (of mind) of a large number of people. Heck, if I didn't know the guy it would make ME nervous. IMO he makes us all look bad and irresponsible and the charges leveled against him are perfectly legitimate.

The old adage that "your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose" applies here. Just as you can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater and be immune from the consequences, likewise you can't terrorize an entire mall full of people by walking around with (what appears to be) a military "assault weapon" and expect not to be arrested for it either.

 

[shouldazagged]

That sums it up nicely.

No way in hell he was helping our cause.

 

[M3Stuart]

Hmmm...glad I bought the 'extra large' size popcorn...I'm going back for a FREE REFILL...

 

[policerevolvercollector]

I'm a law enforcement officer & very pro 2nd amendment. I have zero problem with law abiding sane citizens being armed. Having said that, open carry in civilian clothes is a BAD idea.

A prime example involves a rookie deputy that walked into a business that I was in several years ago proudly wearing a handgun. He stopped at the counter and was talking to the cute girl behind the counter and never paid any attention to his surroundings at all. I was watching him from the moment he came in the door from just a few feet away. After maybe 10 minutes,he saw me and we chatted before I finished my business and left. I let it go until I saw him alone at the sheriff's office a few days later when I was at work. We worked the conversation around to the day when I'd seen him & he hadn't spotted me. Not only had he not seen me, he never realized that I was armed. I posed the question " If a bad guy had been there, who would he shoot first me or you? Who would the BG see as a threat before you saw him?"

I see this deputy from time to time and he still thanks me for the advice and yes he hides the pistol now.

 

[dave b]

If the guy owns a gun store in the mall, how does he, or his customers get them in or out. Smuggle them in boxes? Would you feel safer if it was in a soft case?

 

[feralmerril]

Most here probley wouldnt go ape over it but yes, far as the general public go`s it would be far smarter to carry the gun to his shop in a case. Most of the public wouldnt even think he has a gun in it and the ones that did would relaize it would take a little while to pull it out and get it in action.
Even if nothing at all comes of this you dont think he will do it again do you?

 

[Ogandydancer]

Open carry is and always has been legal in NC as far as I know. However things like this is why I don't. I have seen a couple of people OC'ing in this area lately but one was a Homeland Security Agent and had their logo on his shirt, the other just looked like an everyday joe. Most people in my area would probably spaz out if they saw a person in plain clothes oc'ing. I don't need this kind of attention.

 

[Marshwheeling]

... I'd want a case that didn't scream FIREARM to bystanders.

A violin case?

 

[Hodgin]

This behavior doesn't help the cause of gun advocates. Under the Supreme Court's interpretation of the 2nd Am., states and local govts still have substantial say so over gun laws.

About all that's been declared is that individuals have rights to guns for self-defense at home. As I understand it, a U.S. Constitutional right to carry is now in the system but no final SC decision. My guess is that even if the Court eventually decides individuals have a right to carry, state and local govt will be able to regulate it.

Bottom line is that legislatures (voting public) are going to play substantial roles in what gun rights ultimately turn out to be. My guess is that in most places, especially cities and suburbs, the general public isn't going to go for open carry, especially AR-15 rifles. Moreover, the idea that LE can't check the legal status of such a carrier just won't fly. If someone is walking around with such a rifle most people would like for LE to be able to check him out before something happens rather than afterwards.

 

[LVSteve]

Disturbing the Peace has been a sort of catch-all but I do understand it. If a guy walks through a mall with a rifle and nobody takes any notice or just shrugs, then the peace has not been disturbed. However, if it generates a significant number of 911 calls, then clearly the peace has been disturbed. The latter is an example where it can be argued that the community decided that the behaviour disturbed the peace.

Did the guy break any Texas or federal gun law? Probably not. Do I like that he was called in by panicked citizens? Not really, but I understand why and I'm afraid so must the rest of us as responsible gun owners.