Open Carry

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Photoman44 said:
The sample size of persons that open carry is so microscopic that not being able to cite examples is no surprise.
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How many does it take to be considered non-"microscopic"? A thousand? A million? Ten million?

In 2009, it was estimated that there were 429 violent crimes committed for every 100,000 persons in the United States, so 1 out of every 233 people could expect to be a victim of a violent crime.

Since I suspect we can all agree that on any given day, there are at least tens-of-thousands of people who openly carry in this country (not counting LE), can we not look at the overall crime rates against those folks and ascertain data that is just as relevant?
 
cshoff said:
How many does it take to be considered non-"microscopic"? A thousand? A million? Ten million?

In 2009, it was estimated that there were 429 violent crimes committed for every 100,000 persons in the United States, so 1 out of every 233 people could expect to be a victim of a violent crime.

Since I suspect we can all agree that on any given day, there are at least tens-of-thousands of people who openly carry in this country (not counting LE), can we not look at the overall crime rates against those folks and ascertain data that is just as relevant?
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It does raise the question of how many people actually do open carry where legal. I've been through New Mexico and Arizona, both open carry states, many times and can recall on one hand the number of persons I saw carrying openly. Maybe some of the other open carry states have a higher percentage?
 
Photoman44 said:
It does raise the question of how many people actually do open carry where legal. I've been through New Mexico and Arizona, both open carry states, many times and can recall on one hand the number of persons I saw carrying openly. Maybe some of the other open carry states have a higher percentage?
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I think it all depends on what part of those states you happen to travel through. I have a friend who lives somewhere north of Phoenix who describes open carry as "commonplace", though he's quick to point out that it is more prevalent in some areas than others.
 
My home state of Tn. allows handgun permit holders to carry openly or concealed but I do not know many people who open carry. I know of only one incident where open carry lead to a LE response and that was by someone in the Nashville area open carrying an AR pistol.
 
Photoman44 said:
Texas has been a CC state for over a decade now with almost half a million CHL's issued and I'm not aware of a single case of someone being charged with intentional failure to conceal. You might want to go over to the Texas CHL forum and look around. Lot's of good information there. No need in worrying over things that don't need to be worried about.
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Probably very true. I tend to get very involved in new things very quickly so my interest grows faster than my knowledge. I went from never being underwater to rescue scuba diver in just two years and now from never having a gun to a small and growing collection with a CHL in just 10 months. Thank goodness for forums like this to help sort it all out.
 
I doubt if most adults are observant enough to even notice someone open carrying unless that person has a flashy rig or is acting nervous. I’m a people watcher and most people seem to go through life oblivious to what is going on around them.
 
walnutred said:
I doubt if most adults are observant enough to even notice someone open carrying unless that person has a flashy rig or is acting nervous. I’m a people watcher and most people seem to go through life oblivious to what is going on around them.
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You nailed it.

Around here, people do not notice a gun. They notice my badge on the belt long before they see a gun. I seldom carry concealed when not working. If I leave the local area, concealed is the only way I go.
 
Something is awry with this stat.

cshoff is entirely accurate in what he states yet something is "missing." Can anyone help? Any stat gurus out there?

e.g. Let us consider a city of 100,000 souls. 429 crimes of violence equates to approximately 1.2 crimes of violence per day. To me, that means I have a 1 in 833,333 chance of being a victim each day...not one in 233.

AGAIN, CSHOFF'S STAT IS ACCURATE, PER SE, BUT CAN IT BE BETTER QUANTIFIED. What am I missing?

If I am not being clear, there are 1304 people currently looking at this Forum. The stat as initially represented suggests 1 in 6 of us will be a victim of a violent crime today. Am is missing something? (Note: I have waaaaaay more than 233 pals on Facebook. Thankfully, none of them has been a victim of a crime of violence in the several years I have used Facebook.)

HELLLLLLLLP!

Be safe.

cshoff said:
...

In 2009, it was estimated that there were 429 violent crimes committed for every 100,000 persons in the United States, so 1 out of every 233 people could expect to be a victim of a violent crime. ...
Click to expand...
 
The Big D said:
Something is awry with this stat.

cshoff is entirely accurate in what he states yet something is "missing." Can anyone help? Any stat gurus out there?

e.g. Let us consider a city of 100,000 souls. 429 crimes of violence equates to approximately 1.2 crimes of violence per day. To me, that means I have a 1 in 833,333 chance of being a victim each day...not one in 233.

AGAIN, CSHOFF'S STAT IS ACCURATE, PER SE, BUT CAN IT BE BETTER QUANTIFIED. What am I missing?

If I am not being clear, there are 1304 people currently looking at this Forum. The stat as initially represented suggests 1 in 6 of us will be a victim of a violent crime today. Am is missing something? (Note: I have waaaaaay more than 233 pals on Facebook. Thankfully, none of them has been a victim of a crime of violence in the several years I have used Facebook.)

HELLLLLLLLP!

Be safe.
Click to expand...

You are missing a couple of things. First and foremost, the stats represent a national average. Clearly, some areas have a much higher violent crime rate than others. Take Chicago and Washington DC, for example. Both areas have exponentially higher crime rates than, say, rural Kansas. So you can't just look at those averaged statistics and believe that 1 out of every 233 people in every locale in the country will be a victim of a violent crime this year because it could be much higher than that in one area, and much lower than that in another.

In addition, these statistics are annual, not daily. In your hypothetical "100,000 population city", if 429 of those people were going to be victimized, and you were one of those 100,000 people, then yes, your odds of being one of the 429 victims would be 1 in 233 (+/-) over the course of that year, NOT 1 in 833,333. (429X233= 99,957).
 
The Big D said:
Something is awry with this stat.

cshoff is entirely accurate in what he states yet something is "missing." Can anyone help? Any stat gurus out there?

e.g. Let us consider a city of 100,000 souls. 429 crimes of violence equates to approximately 1.2 crimes of violence per day. To me, that means I have a 1 in 833,333 chance of being a victim each day...not one in 233.

AGAIN, CSHOFF'S STAT IS ACCURATE, PER SE, BUT CAN IT BE BETTER QUANTIFIED. What am I missing?

If I am not being clear, there are 1304 people currently looking at this Forum. The stat as initially represented suggests 1 in 6 of us will be a victim of a violent crime today. Am is missing something? (Note: I have waaaaaay more than 233 pals on Facebook. Thankfully, none of them has been a victim of a crime of violence in the several years I have used Facebook.)

HELLLLLLLLP!

Be safe.
Click to expand...

WHAT, only 429 crimes per 100,000... where, I will move today...

I live near the city of Flint, MI. In 2008, the violent crimes for the City of Flint were 2596.1 per 100,000 people (the national average at that time was 553.5 per 100,000). Its only gone up, too. Last year, Flint, Detroit and Saginaw MI (all within 120 miles of each other) were in the top 6 of America's highest crime rated cities per capita. I know that with less population, Flint MI beat it's previous record for murders in a year in 2010 (I think with 63(102434 was the population of Flint in 2010)).


I think it all depends on where you live...
 
Kapture1 said:
WHAT, only 429 crimes per 100,000... where, I will move today...

I live near the city of Flint, MI. In 2008, the violent crimes for the City of Flint were 2596.1 per 100,000 people (the national average at that time was 553.5 per 100,000). Its only gone up, too. Last year, Flint, Detroit and Saginaw MI (all within 120 miles of each other) were in the top 6 of America's highest crime rated cities per capita. I know that with less population, Flint MI beat it's previous record for murders in a year in 2010 (I think with 63(102434 was the population of Flint in 2010)).


I think it all depends on where you live...
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that the statistic I posted (429 of 100,000) was in regards to violent crimes only. It did not include property crimes or petty crimes.
 
cshoff said:
Keep in mind that the statistic I posted (429 of 100,000) was in regards to violent crimes only. It did not include property crimes or petty crimes.
Click to expand...

So did I.

2596.1 per 100,000 was Flint's 2008 violent crime rate...

Got to love Flint
 
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mkk41 said:
I recall seeing police car dash-cam video from Michigan where a man was pulled over while carrying openly riding a motorcycle. The cop had pulled him over before and really proceded to be a total jerk. He even called the prosecutors office and after being told the man was within his rights , said "well just find someone , anyone , who will SAY it IS illegal!"

There's been events in Philadelphia where OC advocates , looking to stir trouble , have gone downtown , had their guns confiscated and even been arrested (on false pretense) , just to make their lives miserable. Don't know if there's registration of firearms in Michigan , but if any other guns show up under your ownership , the police/sheriffs could come a-knocking and confiscate ALL your firearms.

And it's a long , expensive process to prove them wrong and get your property back.
Click to expand...


just wondering...can you provide a place for us to see this visual/audio claims that you are making?i'm also curious as to police confiscation of all your firearms...you know where they "come-a knocking" as you say...i have many years in the criminal justice field and i am a bit....uhhhhh...bewildered :cool:
 
 
WOW! Think the guy in the short shorts was intentionaly blocking the dash cam?
 
walnutred said:
WOW! Think the guy in the short shorts was intentionaly blocking the dash cam?
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If you watch all 4 parts all the way through, they move out of the way and you can see the majority of the interaction very clear. The officer that initiated this stop should probably NOT be in the law enforcement profession. He's the kind of cop that casts a bad stereotype on the rest of them.
 
The topic of open carry has both proponents and opponents. The argument made on one side is that it will make you a target, the other side says you're a better deterrent. One side says it's not worth the inevitable hassle, the other side says the hassle is worth it to protect the right to carry. It's a topic that often leads to heated debate, and in the end very little, if anything, is resolved. The decision to open carry has much to do with one's own personal temperament, location, lifestyle, etc. It's quite similar to asking what kind of handgun should be carried. There really is no right or wrong answer that applies to everyone. As Calvin would say to Hobbes, "I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul."
 
 
CelticSire said:
The topic of open carry has both proponents and opponents. The argument made on one side is that it will make you a target, the other side says you're a better deterrent. One side says it's not worth the inevitable hassle, the other side says the hassle is worth it to protect the right to carry. It's a topic that often leads to heated debate, and in the end very little, if anything, is resolved. The decision to open carry has much to do with one's own personal temperament, location, lifestyle, etc. It's quite similar to asking what kind of handgun should be carried. There really is no right or wrong answer that applies to everyone. As Calvin would say to Hobbes, "I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul."
Click to expand...

Well THAT about sums it up, ya think? :D This thread will die and another started next week. Life goes on.....and on....and...
 
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