Open Carry

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True enough. And we don't have radios to call for back up. No long gun in the car. No partner. No dog. And no body armor.

The element of surprise is everything.

If you've practiced your draw from concealment like everyone should, it ain't much slower than open carry.

After that, shooting on the move and bullet placement is all that matters.

So open carry MIGHT give me an few miliseconds more time.

It's not enough of an advantage to go through the trouble of open carry.

Partially correct. Most armed robberies have two accomplices. One does the crime while another watches the patrons often un-noticed. Try reaching inside a shirt or a jacket to see how long it takes someone to notice your doing so. I also know from experience that guns get snagged on clothing, particularly in stressfull situations. An open gun requires less movement that would attract attention. The accomplice will draw his "hidden" gun and shoot you while you fixate on the actual robber.

Contrary to those that are not accustomed to open carry, people do not notice a gun on the side by civilians where it is an accepted practice and occurance. Years ago, a person with a pager on their side drew more attention.

What shocks me is the lack of people carrying in fanny packs.
 
You must have missed this when I posted it 2 pages ago

You are right. I missed that.

Did anyone else hear the speaker say hundreds of thousands carry openly each year and this is the first time he has ever heard of it?

I have worked dozens of cases where guns were stolen from cars and even more from homes. Not once have I ever heard of a gun being taken from an individual carrying openly.

Not only that, but the victim in the video even helped give the perp his gun. I will not surrender my gun under any circumstances. Once the gun is gone, you are at the mercy of the perp.
 
Wow. Another person who had no business carrying a firearm. Sad.

Be safe.

You are right. I missed that.

Did anyone else hear the speaker say hundreds of thousands carry openly each year and this is the first time he has ever heard of it?

I have worked dozens of cases where guns were stolen from cars and even more from homes. Not once have I ever heard of a gun being taken from an individual carrying openly.

Not only that, but the victim in the video even helped give the perp his gun. I will not surrender my gun under any circumstances. Once the gun is gone, you are at the mercy of the perp.
 
While I don't have any problems with OC in most circumstances, I don't understand WHY anyone would WANT to OC. I grew up in rural VA, and tagged along with my uncle who always OC'd while doing farm chores and going into a small town to re-up with supplies. Not the same as packing in Philly or Los Angeles. It probably works well in Louisiana, though.
Bob
 
While I don't have any problems with OC in most circumstances, I don't understand WHY anyone would WANT to OC. I grew up in rural VA, and tagged along with my uncle who always OC'd while doing farm chores and going into a small town to re-up with supplies. Not the same as packing in Philly or Los Angeles. It probably works well in Louisiana, though.
Bob

I think a better question is: Why wouldn't you want to OC?

I could say more, but I think this guy said it best: The Open Carry Argument
 
Just because no one has ever heard of a citizen being relieved of his firearm doesn't mean it hasn't happened, or it has happened for that matter. How does anyone know what's going on in bumsquat, USA?

If I come up behind you with my gun drawn, I AM taking your gun.
 
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Open carry is plenty widespread enough that we would see any patterns by now. Clearly most of the stuff put out there by the anti-open crowd is what-ifs with no factual basis. Sure someone could, and most likely has, targeted someone because they were carrying. So what, you're more likely to win the lotto. Who factors in the possibility of winning the lotto when making financial decisions?

All I see is the benefits of open carry is that you can have a more larger more effective weapon, worn more comfortably, and more accessible.

The downsides are long shot what-ifs, some people might look at you funny sometimes and some LEO might bug you.

Easy choice there, if Republican wouldn't have sold out the citizens of FL that is.
 
Just because no one has ever heard of a citizen being relieved of his firearm doesn't mean it hasn't happened, or it has happened for that matter. How does anyone know what's going on in bumsquat, USA?

If I come up behind you with my gun drawn, I AM taking your gun.

And it sure was nice of him to let you know in advance that he was wearing a gun. Otherwise you might have been in for a nasty surprise. With that concealed carry stuff you never know who is carrying :)
 
Partially correct. Most armed robberies have two accomplices. One does the crime while another watches the patrons often un-noticed. Try reaching inside a shirt or a jacket to see how long it takes someone to notice your doing so. I also know from experience that guns get snagged on clothing, particularly in stressfull situations. An open gun requires less movement that would attract attention. The accomplice will draw his "hidden" gun and shoot you while you fixate on the actual robber.

Contrary to those that are not accustomed to open carry, people do not notice a gun on the side by civilians where it is an accepted practice and occurance. Years ago, a person with a pager on their side drew more attention.

What shocks me is the lack of people carrying in fanny packs.

As usual old timer, we disagree.

I'm fully aware of the "tailgunner". All the more reason not to open carry. Your the first to get it in the back of the head.

Like I said before, if I need to defend myself with a gun, I'll do my best to do it on my terms. Not someone else's. With open carry, your choices are extremely limited.

If I and an accomplice walk into a bank to rob it, you would be the first person that I would either shoot or hold you at gun point before you can draw.

Sorry my friend, but you don't have eyes in the back of your head. Even the best let thier guard down once in a while.
 
While I don't have any problems with OC in most circumstances, I don't understand WHY anyone would WANT to OC. I grew up in rural VA, and tagged along with my uncle who always OC'd while doing farm chores and going into a small town to re-up with supplies. Not the same as packing in Philly or Los Angeles. It probably works well in Louisiana, though.
Bob

I have always maintained it depends not only in the area in which you live but the length of time the law has been in existence. Louisiana always had open carry and it works well. If TX were to get it, there would be confusion for years to come over people carrying openly. People here do not pay it any attention.
 
OC is hardly a crime deterrent. The top 3 States in crime all have OC

Most dangerous states: Crime rankings for 2010

Sorry but that list is bogus and open or concealed carry has nothing to do with it. Those are stats that are incomplete and the study left out many areas in the nation.

In order to have proper stats, there has to be complete information entered and all the contributing areas has to be on the same page. For example, motor vehicle insurance in my area is one of the highest in the nation. With perfect driving records, I pay over $500 in car insurance each month on two vehicles. If I were to move two parishes to the south, I would pay less than a third of that. The difference is police in that area writes accident reports up as incidents when both parties involved live in the parish. It makes their accident rates lower.

The same takes place in crime reporting. What may be a felony in one city or state may be a minor misdemeanor in another.

The worst crime area in the US is Washington DC but it is never included in national stats. Chicago has more crime per captia than most places but their record keeping lists things differently. The DOJ cannot compile accurate records due to differences in record keeping. Heck, it is difficult around here. There is a man now charged with a triple homicide with eye witnesses. Now another man may be charged with the same crime even though there is not a witness to be had against him and the first man may possibly be released and the charges will be reduced against the second man. In another case, we had it listed as a homicide and a man was convicted. Two yrs later it is listed as death by natural causes and the man is released from prison.

Granted, LA needs to make the list of worst crime. But if the New Orleans area was to be omitted, the rest of the State would have one of the best records in the world. Multiple homicides and armed robberies are common in the New Orleans area. Two days ago there was an entire family killed with gun shots to the head and it happens almost daily.
 
Sorry but that list is bogus and open or concealed carry has nothing to do with it. Those are stats that are incomplete and the study left out many areas in the nation.

In order to have proper stats, there has to be complete information entered and all the contributing areas has to be on the same page. For example, motor vehicle insurance in my area is one of the highest in the nation. With perfect driving records, I pay over $500 in car insurance each month on two vehicles. If I were to move two parishes to the south, I would pay less than a third of that. The difference is police in that area writes accident reports up as incidents when both parties involved live in the parish. It makes their accident rates lower.

The same takes place in crime reporting. What may be a felony in one city or state may be a minor misdemeanor in another.

The worst crime area in the US is Washington DC but it is never included in national stats. Chicago has more crime per captia than most places but their record keeping lists things differently. The DOJ cannot compile accurate records due to differences in record keeping. Heck, it is difficult around here. There is a man now charged with a triple homicide with eye witnesses. Now another man may be charged with the same crime even though there is not a witness to be had against him and the first man may possibly be released and the charges will be reduced against the second man. In another case, we had it listed as a homicide and a man was convicted. Two yrs later it is listed as death by natural causes and the man is released from prison.

Granted, LA needs to make the list of worst crime. But if the New Orleans area was to be omitted, the rest of the State would have one of the best records in the world. Multiple homicides and armed robberies are common in the New Orleans area. Two days ago there was an entire family killed with gun shots to the head and it happens almost daily.

I'd love to see some hard facts/statistics that prove OC is a crime deterrent other than some hypotheses/opinions.

You want to remove NO from La but fail to remove Chicago from Ill. Even FBI stats list La as number 1 in murders. I guess a murder is not a murder in other states.
 
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I'd love to see some hard facts/statistics that prove OC is a crime deterrent other than some hypotheses/opinions.

You want to remove NO from La but fail to remove Chicago from Ill. Even FBI stats list La as number 1 in murders. I guess a murder is not a murder in other states.

Likewise, I would like to see you produce some kind of hard facts that show a correlation between open carry and higher crime rates since, after all, that is your claim.

In reality, states that allow citizens to lawfully carry, by any method, have generally seen a downward trend in violent crimes. In fact, it's no secret that violent crimes rates, on a national level, are lower now than they have been for a long time. It may be purely coincidental that there are more armed citizens out there than there ever has been in modern times, or it may not. Either way, your above assertion is erroneous.
 
I still don't understand why people think CC gives them any 'element of surprise'. You are on defense. The bad guy is on offense. Defense never has the element of surprise. If an armed bad guy sticks you up, drawing your CC is going to get you shot. OC will at least give him a reason to choose someone else.
 
I still don't understand why people think CC gives them any 'element of surprise'. You are on defense. The bad guy is on offense. Defense never has the element of surprise. If an armed bad guy sticks you up, drawing your CC is going to get you shot. OC will at least give him a reason to choose someone else.

Thinking that open carry is a deterrant is wishful thinking at best. Actually I think open carry makes you more of a target. One to "get rid of first".

And it's not so much about "surprise". It's about taking action, or no action when you WANT to. Not when you HAVE to.
 
Likewise, I would like to see you produce some kind of hard facts that show a correlation between open carry and higher crime rates since, after all, that is your claim.

Aren't you fans of OC making the assertions about how it reduces crime? Again, where's the proof?

If I'm a "bad guy", the first one I'm shooting is the one OC'ing. Why wouldn't I? Got eyes in the back of your head?
 
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In reality, states that allow citizens to lawfully carry, by any method, have generally seen a downward trend in violent crimes. In fact, it's no secret that violent crimes rates, on a national level, are lower now than they have been for a long time. It may be purely coincidental that there are more armed citizens out there than there ever has been in modern times, or it may not. Either way, your above assertion is erroneous.

I thought we were talking about OC, now you're introducing ALL carry to prove OC reduces crime. Nice try.
 
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