Hi:
I have heard the term "Open Carry" What exactly is this and what states allow this?
Thanks,
Jimmy
I have heard the term "Open Carry" What exactly is this and what states allow this?
Thanks,
Jimmy
Open Carry
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flop-shank
US Veteran
Open carry means that the gun is exposed for anyone to see, as opposed to concealed carry.
Bob R
US Veteran
Jimmy,
What flop-shank said. It isn't concealed. As far as the states that allow it, I only keep up with what is close to me.
I can OC in WA (which I do about 90% of the time), ID, MT and if I ever go to OR I will look up the laws there. You can also OC in AZ. One I know for sure you can't OC in is TX.
This site will fill your head full of OC stuff: www.opencarry.org
bob
What flop-shank said. It isn't concealed. As far as the states that allow it, I only keep up with what is close to me.
I can OC in WA (which I do about 90% of the time), ID, MT and if I ever go to OR I will look up the laws there. You can also OC in AZ. One I know for sure you can't OC in is TX.
This site will fill your head full of OC stuff: www.opencarry.org
bob
Glock 'em down
Member
I am completely and totally against open carry 110%. The element of surprise could mean the difference between winning and losing...or in other words...living and dying.
I know, I know, everybody always says, "well...what about this" or "if" this and "but" that. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd ALL have a merry Christmas.
The fact of the matter is, if a BG sees your gun, chances are he's gonna take you out of the equation and seek out others just like you. Then, he's gonna do what he planned on doing in the first place.
Remember...he's seen "yours" but you haven't seen "his."
Just one flatfoots view of thangs.
I know, I know, everybody always says, "well...what about this" or "if" this and "but" that. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd ALL have a merry Christmas.
The fact of the matter is, if a BG sees your gun, chances are he's gonna take you out of the equation and seek out others just like you. Then, he's gonna do what he planned on doing in the first place.
Remember...he's seen "yours" but you haven't seen "his."
Just one flatfoots view of thangs.
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aterry33
Member
Did anyone see the nutcase carrying the AR-15 around near where Obama was speaking? That has sort of been the "image" of the open carry debate lately, at least in much of the mainstream media.
Kollin
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Categorically not true. Just about every criminal interviewed about that situation has said they would just find another target or wait for the armed person to leave the area. They aren't out to get hurt and don't want to chance it. Even the common criminal has some brains.
Knightrider03m
Member
I am completely and totally against open carry 110%. The element of surprise could mean the difference between winning and losing...or in other words...living and dying.
I know, I know, everybody always says, "well...what about this" or "if" this and "but" that. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd ALL have a merry Christmas.
The fact of the matter is, if a BG sees your gun, chances are he's gonna take you out of the equation and seek out others just like you. Then, he's gonna do what he planned on doing in the first place.
Remember...he's seen "yours" but you haven't seen "his."
Just one flatfoots view of thangs.
THANK YOU!
I only OC when I'm working or when I go to they picnics only because in both places, I'm expected to have a gun. Outside of that, I CC. Plus its not worth the hassle if the cops get called on me.
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sipowicz
Member
The only way I want someone to see my gun is from the muzzle.
GatorFarmer
Member
Open carry is perfectly legal in VA.
Contrary to the opinion that a person would be singled out as a target, if someone pages back a bit, or uses the search function, they can read about a defensive shooting here in VA (I think it was in Richmond) where the gun owner was open carrying an Uberti SA revolver with a 7.5" barrel in a convenience store. The robber ignored the gun owner and went up and shot the owner instead. Lots of people either don't notice things or don't exactly plan things out. (If someone was capable of making complex plans and following through, they wouldn't be doing strong armed robberies...)
I don't generally make a practice of it for the simple reason that in ye olden days, cops were occaisionally targeted for a "gun snatch" (one of the reasons for the security holsters coming along) and I don't want to mess with a security holster (I don't like Serpas).
Contrary to the opinion that a person would be singled out as a target, if someone pages back a bit, or uses the search function, they can read about a defensive shooting here in VA (I think it was in Richmond) where the gun owner was open carrying an Uberti SA revolver with a 7.5" barrel in a convenience store. The robber ignored the gun owner and went up and shot the owner instead. Lots of people either don't notice things or don't exactly plan things out. (If someone was capable of making complex plans and following through, they wouldn't be doing strong armed robberies...)
I don't generally make a practice of it for the simple reason that in ye olden days, cops were occaisionally targeted for a "gun snatch" (one of the reasons for the security holsters coming along) and I don't want to mess with a security holster (I don't like Serpas).
Bob R
US Veteran
I don't buy it. If your statement had any ring of truth to it then I would imagine cops would have a big ole bullseye painted on them. They would be shot indiscriminately by bad guys so they can get on with what they had planned in the first place.
I think being an OC'er acts as a deterrent, it will possibly prevent having to draw a gun from concealment because if the bad guy notices your gun he will almost always move on without doing anything. I don't have data to back this up, just my opinion.
As far as a person being taken out because he is OCing, I call BS. I have yet to hear of one. Much like my position, this one is just opinion also.
As far as being a target for the cops to hassle, shouldn't happen where I live. OC is perfectly legal, there is no requirement for me to produce ID, and the mere fact I have a gun visible in a holster is not grounds for a stop.
If I am stopped and the LEO starts by "hassling" me it goes straight to "Am I being detained?" "Am I free to go?" If I don't get a straight answer such as yes or no I inform him that his refusal to give an answer is an admission that there is no grounds for the stop. I don't buy the, "Well, we just need to talk or the don't you want to clear this up approach very well. Either detain me unlawfully or I am walking away.
If the approach is done with respect toward me, then cooperation and respect is returned. A stop on the street is not the time for the LEO to give me his personal feelings on the practice of OC, his only concern is whether or not I am in compliance with the law as far as open carry is concerned. If I am within the boundaries of the law, it will be a very quick encounter, which will be recorded in case I need the recording of the stop for other reasons.
And yes, I have been called "one of those" by the police here.
bob
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David Sinko
Member
Open carry is legal here in PA. At our Crimes Code updates earlier this year we were explicitly advised/reminded to NOT hassle people who open carry. I heard that our department is already facing one lawsuit stemming from such an incident, but I do not know the details of that and will not speculate. I have seen a few people (not many at all) carrying guns openly on their hips and I would never think of stopping them or even giving them a second glance, but that's just me and I'm probably in the minority.
Dave Sinko
Dave Sinko
ACP230
Member
Years ago I saw a guy riding a horse alongside the major highway where I live. He had a large S&W revolver in a holster on his hip. It looked natural to me. (Since the horse was not a vehicle there were no problems with the MI concealed carry laws in effect then either.)
I sometimes open carry while fishing (usually have a concealed J-frame on me also). Hunting deer I have carried a Ruger Blackhawk .357 or a Contender .357 Maximum in the open.
I am not impressed with the idea when I'm carrying in town, or on trips, for defensive purposes.
I sometimes open carry while fishing (usually have a concealed J-frame on me also). Hunting deer I have carried a Ruger Blackhawk .357 or a Contender .357 Maximum in the open.
I am not impressed with the idea when I'm carrying in town, or on trips, for defensive purposes.
I was going to open carry today.
But after seeing another one of your informative posts on why not to open carry, I'm carrying concealed today.
Who could argue with those facts of yours?
USAF385
US Veteran
As stated.. Open Carry is legal here in PA.
I've done it twice... sort of. Both times I had my 681 in an OWB holster and I was only at the gas station.. only at the pump.. didn't even go inside.
The first time some guy gave me a double take and nearly walked off the sidewalk. The second time nobody noticed. I personally wouldn't open carry in most places.
I've done it twice... sort of. Both times I had my 681 in an OWB holster and I was only at the gas station.. only at the pump.. didn't even go inside.
The first time some guy gave me a double take and nearly walked off the sidewalk. The second time nobody noticed. I personally wouldn't open carry in most places.
Jeb Stonewall
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Unlike you Willy, I didn't see any of those facts or reasons in that post you are talking about.
So I'll be out and about with my gun hanging out.
Oh, for a moment there I thought your user name was Zumbo.
Go get 'em, cowboy.
Spotteddog
Member
If it's legal in your area, you may have as much of a problem with it as you wish. Or, you can work the halls of your state legislature to attempt to have your ability to do so rescinded. However, you might want to consider for a moment that someone in government must have thought it an important enough piece of law to have "on the books" at some point? You can argue as to whether your IQ goes down based strictly on where one's being carried, but unless it's illegal your opinion on it will matter little.
I'm always amazed at the amount of BITTER invective heaped on anyone who might think it appropriate for open carry to be legal, especially considering that ONLY 9 STATES ABSOLUTELY PROHIBIT OPEN CARRY.
I grew up in an open carry state, and learned the "social graces" associated with it. If I were on the way to the range or hunting with the gun on my hip and stoped at the gas station, hardly anyone even noticed. If I were going downtown shopping in crowded stores, I carried concealed instead of open. Well, DUH!
OK is one of the few states that prohibit any open carry, and I find it rather SILLY that I am technically in violation if I expose my concealed carry pistol on state land WHILE I HAVE A DEER RIFLE IN MY HANDS.
All criminal penalties for open carry need to be removed. And no one should be subject to charges because the wind blew his coat back in the store parking lot.
I grew up in an open carry state, and learned the "social graces" associated with it. If I were on the way to the range or hunting with the gun on my hip and stoped at the gas station, hardly anyone even noticed. If I were going downtown shopping in crowded stores, I carried concealed instead of open. Well, DUH!
OK is one of the few states that prohibit any open carry, and I find it rather SILLY that I am technically in violation if I expose my concealed carry pistol on state land WHILE I HAVE A DEER RIFLE IN MY HANDS.
All criminal penalties for open carry need to be removed. And no one should be subject to charges because the wind blew his coat back in the store parking lot.
Interesting post from Michael Bane's blog (The Michael Bane Blog), dated August 20, 2009:
"'...People need to be desensitized to gun ownership. And concealed carry just doesn't help that much. When and how we do that desensitization can matter a great deal...."' (Michael Bane citing Joe Huffman.)
"...NO • BIG • DEAL: In other words, normalization of the carrying of firearms. The open carry movement was able to build on that platform, and it is building faster than any of us imagined. Those of us who have been in the trenches for a log [sic] time are suffering from a bit of paradigm paralysis...we fought so hard to get here, and you want do do what? Of course there was a similar paradigm paralysis when we began the concealed carry battle back in Florida, and look how that turned out...
"...Finally, we Old School guys must embrace the nascent open carry movement. I remember some of the arguments among ourselves back in the Florida days — 'So you want to carry a gun all the time? Isn't that taking things a bit too far?" Too far? The concealed carry movement turned out to be the most important of our movement, because it became the tipping point on the normalization of guns.'" (Above two paragraphs are Michael Bane's words.)
"'...People need to be desensitized to gun ownership. And concealed carry just doesn't help that much. When and how we do that desensitization can matter a great deal...."' (Michael Bane citing Joe Huffman.)
"...NO • BIG • DEAL: In other words, normalization of the carrying of firearms. The open carry movement was able to build on that platform, and it is building faster than any of us imagined. Those of us who have been in the trenches for a log [sic] time are suffering from a bit of paradigm paralysis...we fought so hard to get here, and you want do do what? Of course there was a similar paradigm paralysis when we began the concealed carry battle back in Florida, and look how that turned out...
"...Finally, we Old School guys must embrace the nascent open carry movement. I remember some of the arguments among ourselves back in the Florida days — 'So you want to carry a gun all the time? Isn't that taking things a bit too far?" Too far? The concealed carry movement turned out to be the most important of our movement, because it became the tipping point on the normalization of guns.'" (Above two paragraphs are Michael Bane's words.)
Spotteddog
Member
Yes Sir!
Precisely as I see it too...
If thought about, just look how successful the other side has been at dumbing down the educational system, while taxing you more to pay for it yearly. If that doesn't qualify as "acclimating" society in general to something, I don't know what does!
Precisely as I see it too...
If thought about, just look how successful the other side has been at dumbing down the educational system, while taxing you more to pay for it yearly. If that doesn't qualify as "acclimating" society in general to something, I don't know what does!
To jimmyj, I suggest you check out the website OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!. There you will find a wealth of information about the open carrying of firearms. They even have forums dedicated to each of the 50 states, so you can discuss issues releated to your exact area.
As for those who would rail against open carry, I feel your logic is flawed for thinking that carrying openly would allow the bad guy to "get the drop" on you.
Generally speaking, criminals are a stupid, cowardly lot, who would most likely prefer to victimize the helpless and unprotected sheeple of the world rather than someone who openly displays their firearm. Concelased carry is great, I do it all the time, but to a criminal you're just one more of the unarmed sheeple.
You're just as likely to be the first target as the last, whether you carry open or concealed.
As for those who would rail against open carry, I feel your logic is flawed for thinking that carrying openly would allow the bad guy to "get the drop" on you.
Generally speaking, criminals are a stupid, cowardly lot, who would most likely prefer to victimize the helpless and unprotected sheeple of the world rather than someone who openly displays their firearm. Concelased carry is great, I do it all the time, but to a criminal you're just one more of the unarmed sheeple.
You're just as likely to be the first target as the last, whether you carry open or concealed.
Spotteddog
Member
Did I forget to mention the possible advantage of open carrying (after painting it of course) a formerly blue training Glock in a non-retention holster?
This while still carrying concealed of course?
This while still carrying concealed of course?
JJFlash
Member
FYI, open carry is legal in Oregon.
The ONLY time I had a less-than-eloquent encounter with a LEO, it was while carrying concealed. I was stopped for a burnt-out headlight, and INFORMED said LEO (while my hands were on the steering wheel) that I had a permit and was carrying a concealed weapon. As show of gratitude, I ended up with TWO pistols pointed at my head as I slowly retrieved my driver's license and registration from my wallet, located just behind my piece. Oddly enough, neither cop had me remove my pistol and neither asked to see my permit. The smaller of the two cops (135lbs) returned my L&R and proceeded to tell me how "lucky" I was that I fessed up to carrying right off the bat, because "people have been dragged out of car windows before, 'ya know...."
He couldn't have pulled me through a barn if he had a tractor.
These were Pennsylvania State Troopers, by the way.
The ONLY time I had a less-than-eloquent encounter with a LEO, it was while carrying concealed. I was stopped for a burnt-out headlight, and INFORMED said LEO (while my hands were on the steering wheel) that I had a permit and was carrying a concealed weapon. As show of gratitude, I ended up with TWO pistols pointed at my head as I slowly retrieved my driver's license and registration from my wallet, located just behind my piece. Oddly enough, neither cop had me remove my pistol and neither asked to see my permit. The smaller of the two cops (135lbs) returned my L&R and proceeded to tell me how "lucky" I was that I fessed up to carrying right off the bat, because "people have been dragged out of car windows before, 'ya know...."
He couldn't have pulled me through a barn if he had a tractor.
These were Pennsylvania State Troopers, by the way.
Bob R
US Veteran
Well, here is a guy who would pobably wet his pants if OC became common. At least he is an avowed anti-gunner and not someone who professes to support the 2A, fellow shooters and gun gun owners, but only the parts they like.
Get used to it Bryan, we are on the move!
'Open Carry' of guns - logical direction of gun lobby's campaign - Bryan Miller
bob
Get used to it Bryan, we are on the move!
'Open Carry' of guns - logical direction of gun lobby's campaign - Bryan Miller
bob
So, everyone who doesn't share your opinion, is the enemy, eh?
Bob R
US Veteran
I am not even sure how you managed to make that leap, but you did.
My mode of carry should make no difference to a supporter of the 2A. Yet for some reason it does.
In this thread alone people who OC have been called a "nutcase", "idiotic" and a "cowboy". And now somehow you have developed psycic powers and presume to know what I think.
And this is on a gunboard, where the 2A should be fairly important. I guess it is, as long as their interpretation of the 2A coincides with yours, at least that is what it looks like.
You have made it crystal clear that you are against open carry. But maybe you can explain to me why people who open carry are less deserving of protection under the US Constitution and the Constitution of many states than those who carry concealed. From your responses to any OC threads it seems to me that you feel OCers are less than second class citizens when it comes to the protection of the 2A.
I choose my method of carry, and often that is openly. I am sorry you have such an issue with that. But however and whatever you decide to carry, as long as your are legal in your community, I will support you. It is a shame you can't do the same.
bob
bk43
Member
It appears you are making the assumption, like many open carry proponents do, that being pro 2nd and thinking legal open carry is "idiotic" are not compatible. They certainly are. I support and will defend the right of anyone who is legally openly carrying to do so. In most cases it's stupid and counterproductive to the RKBA cause but that is just my opinion.
I can assure you when the various federal and state legislative bodies next convene we are going to pay for the dumb open carry stunts of the last few weeks with a deluge of restrictive gun proposals. That's the way it has always been and that's the way it always will be. And when the dust settles we'll have lost a little more ground. Yeah, we really showed 'em, didn't we?
Bob
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