opinions on C&R FFL....

[inspcalahan]

This is mostly for those with C&R FFls, but anyone - feel free to chime in with thoughts and opinions.

I was considering getting a C&R FFL for the sole purpose of simplifying the acquisition of the older guns for my personal collection. The process to obtain the license seems pretty simple and it sure would be nice to not pay the "transfer" fee from the various FFL dealers around town. $30 every 3 years is better than the $35-50 per gun that most charge me now.

For those that have one -
any concerns? advice?
I read all the papers surrounding the Form7CR application and it's regulations. Any concern with all already owned older C&R guns not being recorded, with the possibility that I might sell or trade one at some point?

Just looking for info from others before I submit the application.

 

[fordson]

I got my C&R recently for the same purpose as you, but have yet to use it. My research and Q&A with other C&R holders indicates that that license only applies to those firearms you brought using the license. Like you, I already have several older collectible firearms that I acquired before getting the C&R license- these do not fall under the C&R. So you would essentially have two categories of your collection: those acquired prior to getting your C&R and those that you got using your C&R. The second category requires the bound logbook and signed copies of your license. Hope this helps.
Also, this thread should be moved to the Lounge as it may not apply to 2A issues.

 

[deadin]

Realize that all dealers will not necessarily recognize a C&R license.
Some also can be difficult to convince that the gun in question is a C&R and that there is a way to check the validity of your license. (EZCheck doesn't include C&R's).
I still find it useful in most cases, mainly when I am out of State. Your being from Alaska, how often do you get out of State?

As for any C&R's you already own, it's up to you whether or not to put them in your book. You will need to enter any at the time you sell them however....

Also, if you buy any C&R handguns via mail or internet, they still have to be sent via UPS/FedEx. FFL03's are not authorized to send or receive handguns through the USPS.

Fordson:

My research and Q&A with other C&R holders indicates that that license only applies to those firearms you brought using the license.

This subject has been argued back and forth for years.

My reading is that ALL C&R's bought or sold while your license is in effect need to be entered in your book. So, anything you acquired before your license doesn't need to be entered until you actually sell it.
The regulations wording says "Shall Be Entered".... Translate that as whatever you are comfortable with......

 

[FlyFish]

At the risk of hijacking this thread (but only just a bit), I have a question that perhaps someone can help with.

I have current 03FFL and recently purchased a C&R-eligible handgun from a member of this forum. I asked if his FFL would be willing to ship directly to me, and I provided a signed copy of my 03FFL, but his FFL felt uncomfortable doing that. That was OK, and I made arrangements to have the gun shipped to my local 01FFL, where I will be picking it up later today.

My question is this: I know, or at least I assume, because my understanding is the same as deadin's, that I have to enter the gun in my bound book. But who should I list as the seller - the individual I bought the gun from, or the FFL who handled the transfer?

 

[Steve_in_PA]

The person you bought the gun from. The dealers are merely the agents being used to do the transfer.

 

[Biggfoot44]

My undestanding:

C&R eligible guns owned before acquiring 003 do not need to be entered. Guns already owned that have a birthday, or otherrwise added to to C&R master list subsequenntly do not need to be added to book.

Guns over 50yr or otherwise eligible aquired must be added, even if 003 was not used to acquire.

It could be debated, but my best understanding is prrevious owned not in book, only need to be added IF they are disposed in manner requiring. 003 to do so. Exp : sale or gift within same state , if otherwise legal in your state, no book. Selling directly to 003 in another state, must enter into book.

 

[deadin]

that I have to enter the gun in my bound book. But who should I list as the seller - the individual I bought the gun from, or the FFL who handled the transfer?

Good question!
I make my book entry according as to who I actually received the gun from or who I turned it over to. If a FFL01 is involved, the book entry is to/from them. Their book should indicate who it came from and/or where it went. I know most FFL01's keep a separate "transfer" book, but all of the required information should be in it. All I have to do, if asked, is to point out the dealer that was involved. (After all, they're the one that did the NICS check and OK'ed the transfer....)

Besides, If you don't keep track of the FFL involved, how are you going to answer the question. "Who did the NICS check?"

 

[LenS]

I've been a member of a C&R FFL eList since 1998 and received my first C&R FFL in 1999. Lots of questions and answers were gleaned over the years. IIRC there are numerous answers in ATF publications and letter rulings as well.

- You are the "licensee" so no matter how you obtain any C&R eligible gun, you must enter it in your Bound Book (BB).

- C&R guns you owned before being licensed do NOT get entered in the BB. If you sell/trade/give away one of them, then you enter it as "from collection prior to C&R FFL" or such wording and info on where it went.

- Not every dealer or distributor will honor a C&R FFL. If one insists on shipping to your 01 FFL instead, you should enter the shipping FFL as the source. This is so that if audited (either the 01 FFL or you), the records must match.

- C&R guns can be obtained anywhere from anyone in US directly or shipped to your home (USPO is off-limits for handguns in this case by law).

- If a C&R is obtained from a dealer, it is done as an FFL to FFL transfer, BB only, no 4473/NICS check done.

 

[2152hq]

"...My question is this: I know, or at least I assume, because my understanding is the same as deadin's, that I have to enter the gun in my bound book. But who should I list as the seller - the individual I bought the gun from, or the FFL who handled the transfer?..."


The 01FFL is part of the paperwork trail.
He's not just acting as the Post Office for the seller 03FFL. He is part of the transaction and must log the gun in and out.
The OP logs it 'in' from the 01FFL.

 

[Jebus35745]

The thing I didn't like was at gun shows. If you buy or sell to someone, you need their drivers license for the info to log in or out of your book. Most don't want to give the info to you cause they don't know you. Missed buying and selling bc of this.

I would log the FFL that sent the gun, not the person that I bought from out of state. The FFL that sent it has it logged in his book with the name of the person sending the gun to you.

My FFL charges 20.00 per gun which is OK. Keeps me out of Federal legal hassles, Larry

 

[deadin]

If you buy or sell to someone, you need their drivers license for the info to log in or out of your book. Most don't want to give the info to you cause they don't know you.

If they are so paranoid that they won't identify themselves, I don't want to do business with them in the first place....

I've actually never run across a seller that wouldn't ID themselves. (They're too happy to sell their gun.) I've had a couple that didn't want to ID themselves when buying from me, so no deal. (I wouldn't have sold to them even if I didn't have a license as I want a name in case the gun traces back to me for some reason.)

Here in WA this has become pretty much a moot point... I don't buy anything except C&R's and all sales to non-licensees have to go through a dealer anyway. (Antiques excluded...)

 

[Jebus35745]

Showing a drivers license to buy a hand gun is a common curtesy to show you are a resident at a Gun Show. If you sell a hand gun to a person in the isle and he is a BATF agent, you will be in trouble if you don't ask to see the license. Telling someone you need all the info from the license is another story to some. A few do not want their name on any log or for you to know where they live, being cautious of being robbed I guess. Some tables with out an FFL are actually in the business of selling guns and want no record kept of what they are doing. Larry

 

[deadin]

I would log the FFL that sent the gun, not the person that I bought from out of state. The FFL that sent it has it logged in his book with the name of the person sending the gun to you.

I would do this only if the sending FFL sent it directly to me. If it was sent FFL01 to FFL01 to take advantage of the lower USPS costs for handguns, I would log the FFL01 I got it from (i.e. my local one.) His book will point to the sending FFL and that FFL's book will point to the actual seller.
I know this sounds too complicated, but it keeps the paper trail complete.

 

[H Richard]

To answer one question often asked, I have never been checked, and I know of no other 03 FFL that has ever been checked. One thing I have had to do is take time to educate some FFL's just what a C&R is. One of our local pawn shops thought a C&R is only valid for "antique's".

 

[deadin]

I also have managed to "educate" a few locals but still have one that thinks his head will explode if he has to learn/remember anything more about FFL's.