Opinions please from former Scouts and friends of Scouting

[lrrifleman]

Hopefully, this will not be dinged by the Moderators, I don't believe that this violates any forum rules, but I have been known to be wrong on occasion!

I am an Eagle Scout, having earned my rank in September, 1972 in Delaware District, Camden County Council (NJ). I was raised old school with values and morals. I have lived my life by the Twelve Points. There were some accepted basic realities: Boy Scouts were for young men, Girl Scouts were for young ladies, and women didn't belong in the Combat Arms nor in combat zones.

Yesterday's announcement that the Boy Scouts of America were allowing young ladies to be either Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts was disturbing, and the fact that girls can now work for the coveted Eagle Award nearly knocked me over. Growing up, the understanding was that boys could learn skills appropriate to their gender from past and present at their own pace in Boy Scouts, the same as girls could do (likewise) in Girl Scouts. I remember pushing myself to my limits, not being held back. I remember working on and excelling in the fields of various merit badges, and "roughing it" during summer camp adventures both in and out of Council. NEVER, were we held back by other guys or girls.

I don't believe that I am biased, but programs for boys should be sacred for boys, and programs for girls should be sacred for girls. I find it hard to envision working on the politically incorrect merit badges or doing summer camp with adolescent girls. Would the 50 Miler award or Historic Trails award still be attainable?

One of my goals has been to allow my children (daughter and son) to have a childhood as close to mine as possible. While I realize that National Council is leaving the ultimate decision up to the local Packs and Troops, I have a problem with the possibility of my son doing (summer) camp with girls growing into womanhood or members of the uncertain gender, the same as having my daughter camping or doing "girl stuff" with young biological males. Sometimes, children need a break from the opposite gender.

Having grown up amongst "wild" boys and girls, and having taught their ilk for too many years, I just don't know what this world is coming to! I have severe reservations about whether my children will continue in Scouting based on the latest (ill informed) decision by the Boy Scouts.

May I ask the opinion of those here that rose through the ranks of Scouting, or have had an interest in Scouting? Thanks for your opinions!

 

[Mule Packer]

Have been active in Scouting for over 50 years. Received the Silver Beaver in 1996. Have served on the council board and several district committees. All three of our sons have served either as Scoutmaster or Cubmaster at one time or another. One son has also received his Silver Beaver. I have been a large financial supporter for years until just recently. In order to refrain from violating forum rules in order to explain why, I'll just say that I am no longer a supporter of the Boy Scouts.

Baden-Powell is probably rolling over in his grave.

 

[Muley Gil]

I totally agree with you, Irrifleman. While I never rose beyond 2nd class, due to health issues, I enjoyed being a Boy Scout

 

[NYlakesider]

Wife and I were both merit badge counselors for many years. I did boating and shooting! We both started when our guys were Cub Scouts. Both my sons made Eagle, went to a couple jamborees and wilderness events in Maine!

Years back we tied in with a troop from England, they came over and spent two summer weeks with our scouting families, a year later our people went to England. My sons went to England but I could not make it!

Speaking for the wife and me, we do not like what is happening with the scouts. Things starting going bad years ago and just got much worse. I doubt that Scouts as we know it will be viable much longer!

 

[Protocall_Design]

I was in Boy Scouts and Explorer Scouts. I think it's a very bad idea to mix boys and girls of this age. Trying to bring them all back the same way they left would be a Scoutmaster nightmare.

 

[Arik]

Never been to boy scouts but I have been to camps similar. Never had a problem with girls being there. Aside from sleeping separate little kids don't do things that much differently

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[explorer13421]

Things have changed, not only in the design and materials used for firearms, but socially and culturally. The reality is that membership of youth in Boy Scouts has dropped in absolute terms and relatively. This is due to many reasons, and affects many other organizations. One of the factors has to due with changes in the makeup of families that has nothing to do with Boy Scouts, especially the numbers of two-worker families and single parent families. Parents often do not have the same amount of leisure time their parents or grandparents had, and are looking for activities that both their sons and daughters can participate in at the same time.

 

[pawngal]

Obviously I was never a Boy Scout but I was in the Girl Scout program for 6 or 7 years. When my daughter reached Brownie Scout age I was a leader for 2 years and it was nothing like when I was a scout.

Some of my best memories growing up were from scouting. Learning how to make and use a "Buddy Burner", learned how to swim, sleeping in a tent with 3 other girls for 2 weeks, primitive camping with no electricity or running water, using an outhouse and even digging our own latrines, cooking all of our meals over an open fire, taking a bath in the lake. I seriously doubt any of that exists in the Girl Scout program today.
They need to get back to some of the basics of scouting, there is more to life than selling cookies and doing "feel good" things. I do realize that in cities that wouldn't be possible.

Do any of you have daughters/granddaughters in Girl Scouts now? If so, what do they do? Many girls do want to do the "boy" things. With many kids growing up with no father figure it is hard to give them those experiences.

Myself, I have mixed feelings about girls in Boy Scouts so will just leave it at that.

 

[S42N8]

Cub Scout/Webelos/Boy Scout here. Not sure whether this is the BSA pursuing a broader pool for viability, a receding divide between genders, or an anachronism being dragged into the 21st Century. I note explorer13421's post with interest.

That said, I strongly disagree with the BSA's decision. If this must be combined, rename it Scouting. Much remains for boys and girls in its principles, but if combined, it's no longer Boy Scouts. I freely admit to a number of politically-incorrect values...this is one of them.

I'll go over in the corner with the other dinosaurs now.

 

[AZretired]

Stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Next thing the BSA will be adopting a new "Gender Neutral" name.

 

[lrrifleman]

@Pawngal, your views are welcome and encouraged!

As a single parent, I can appreciate the need to maximize your time with your children, but my son is in Cub Scouts and my daughter is bridging into Cadets. For skills covered at home, both are exposed to the lessons and skills simultaneously. But my daughter will NOT be camping with the Cub Scouts nor Boy Scouts, as my son will not be camping with the Girl Scouts. I want to be the person to decide when my children learn "the facts of life".

Personally, I see Scouting (be it Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts) as sacred institutions. I don't subscribe to the liberal mutilation and bending of traditional values, nor the attacks on the institutions that advance those values. I don't know what I will do in the interim. My son's Pack does family camping, which seems to provide adequate supervision. My daughter's troop does girls only camping, with mothers chaperoning, NO men are welcome on their camping trips. I do know that when the first gender confused person tries to join either unit, my children are out!

Yes, I know that I am politically incorrect, and a dinosaur, but I swore THE oath so I could exercise my choices as anyone else can exercise their choice. There is a reason why there is a sign at the dinosaur displays saying "break glass in case of war!"

 

[Alpo]

Stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Next thing the BSA will be adopting a new "Gender Neutral" name.

They did that back in the 70s. They changed the name from Boy Scouts of America to Scouting USA.

That wasn't because of "gender neutral", though.

It was thought that the "inner city youth" would not join an organization called "Boy" anything.

 

[BC38]

I was in Scouts as a kid. Both of my boys went through the Cub Scouts program.
They are 4 years apart in age, so I was a den leader for 8 years straight. Went to summer and winter camp 8 years in a row. I have also been a financial contributor as well.

I am not and will not be any more.

 

[amazingflapjack]

PC is the scourge of this nation-no more B.S.A.

 

[Drm50]

I was in the Scouts never stayed with it because troop was put
in limbo over scoutmaster shortages. Later they got it back on
their feet. My youngest brother was in deep although he didn't
make Eagle Scout. My old man was a assistant scout master at
the time, he had also been in the scouts as a boy. He never
made Eagle Scout because of WW2. I will never give BSA another
dime. This is a national embarrassment.

 

[CH4]

BS!! As a Cub Scout, Weblos and Eagle Scout I ademently oppose such nonsense. This manure is out of control! How many boys are trying to get into Girl Scouts? Perhaps the GS should look at re-structuring and adding prgrams and activities that are like the BSA - I can understand selling cookies would get a little old. I stopped supporting pro sports for their silliness, now I'll be boycotting the BS-A. Let's see what happens when the first pregnancy and or sexual assault is reported.

 

[Rio Laxas]

I am an Eagle Scout and my sister was a girl scout. From what I observed, my sister had way less opportunities to do some of the really amazing things that I go to do in boy scouts (Philmont, a small canoe base in Canada, etc). Frankly her experience with the girl scouts didn't sound all that great.

One of the big problems that I saw 20 years ago was keeping boys aged 15-18 active in the troop. Personally, I didn't want to participate after 16 because I had other things (girls) on my mind. Perhaps the inclusion of girls into the program will help keep that age group interested. Granted there will be issues that arise as a result, but those issues are already occurring in every day life.

It isn't as though the inclusion of girls into BSA is exactly new either. Girls have been allowed in Venturing and Exploring for quite a while, and as far as I know there haven't been any substantial issues with that.

I recall being on a trek at Philmont when I was 14 or our path mirrored a female trail crew. The trail crews spent a good portion of the summer there working to maintain the trails. Other than having to take turns using the outhouse, I don't recall there being any problems. Frankly it was nice to have them around.

The boy scouts taught me a lot of things that I am glad to know and gave me a lot of experiences that I would otherwise have never had. I think our daughters can benefit from that same experience. Where I draw the line is if they substantially change the nature of the program.

 

[soFlaNative]

Posts #1 and 7 make good points. Qualified for Eagle but the project I completed bounced because of a rule change and I foolishly threw in the towel.
Scouting was a great experience, the troop leaders were all WWII vets and outdoorsmen who showed us everything south Fla. had to offer and a yearly 50 miler on the Appalachian Trail.

Got into trouble twice with Girl Scouts at Camp Sawyer in the Keys and on the AT when I had a craving for bread.
12 year old boys need to be boys. Gender specific activities or not the young guys need that interaction amongst themselves that will shape their outlook for life. Putting girls into the mix with both being more "socially aware" than we ever where at that age is naïve and will put a real burden on the adult leaders when it seems both Scouting programs suffer from a shortage of the same.


It's a huge commitment from parents to see their youth through the years devoted to Scouting and if it's not kept fresh the interest wanes and possibly the programs are gone for good. No easy answers but once again it seems the male half will have to make the concessions for the greater peace.

 

[brucev]

I joined the Boy Scouts in 1969. I am an Eagle Scout (1973). Throughout my pastoral ministry numerous churches have had Brownie/Girl Scouts. Sadly fewer have had Cub Scout/Boy Scouts. I currently pastor two full-time churches. One has a very active Cub Scout pack with over 35 boys actively attending. This past Friday we started a Boy Scout troop with seven boys enrolled. Like the Cub Scout pack, the Boy Scout troop will grow. The local Scout representative is a Eagle Scout and Order of the Arrow as well as a 10 yr. veteran of the USMC. He and his wife work together in organizing new troops. They are fine people. The Scoutmaster is a lady who waits tables in a local restaurant. I am the Assistant Scoutmaster. One of the volunteers is a retired lawyer. We are already figuring what will need to be done to get the boys manuals, uniforms, etc., etc. There is always something that has to be done.

It will be a few months before we can start camping trips. The boys have no experience in it. I haven't taken a bunch of boys camping in 22 years. We will start with overnight type camping and then do more as we are able. We will need to do a lot of training on skills, etc. At the same time, we must consider that very few people actually live in rural areas. That is the case with most boys and girls. They live in towns/cities b/c that is where they parents live and work. Read through the BSA Manual. Lots of the activities, etc., reflect this reality. Yesterday read through the current 10/17 issue of Boys Life Magazine. Had lots of stuff about camping, canoeing, rope work, etc. Also had stuff about dealing with feelings, etc. Good idea. Lots of boys and girls are being raised in homes where there is much conflict, broken relationships. Not do any good to pretend these kids are living back in the 70's.

Boy Scouts are no different than any other similar organization. They are having to adapt to change. Many adult groups have struggled with this, some less than successfully. Look at any fraternal organization ... Moose, Elks, VFW. Look at once popular activities ... bowling, pool, fishing, hunting, target/match shooting, outdoor activities in general. Most of them are not seeing increasing numbers of people knocking on the door to sign up. Girl Scouts has plateaued. Boy Scouting is wise to think about how it can continue to be relevant in a changing world. Girls and boys ... they are kids who will grow up. They need the values and leadership skills that one can learn in Boy Scouting. If the presence of girls in Boy Scouting kills Boy Scouting, then it was already terminal. I have served numerous churches in 37 years of pastoral ministry. I have not ever had a single church that ever was effective in reaching people and meeting needs in the name of Christ that did so with only the men doing the work. In fact, in the overwhelming majority of local churches, if it were not for the leadership and support provided by the female members, those local churches would not be doing anything at all. If we want Boy Scouting to be the uniquely male institution that Lord Bayden Powell envisioned, then it will require that men get involved in the leadership and development of boys. Right now, I am not seeing a lot of men willing to step up and do that leadership and development.

That lady who is the Scoutmaster is a waitress. She will do a fine job as Scoutmaster. I am her Assistant Scoutmaster. I will see to it. We have seven boys enrolled. We will grow. It will take time. It will take work. If girls want to join the troop, we will welcome them. It will mean some changes. But Boy Scouting has in its existence successfully weathered changes. That is one reason Boy Scouting has continued when other similar programs failed. One either adapts or one becomes a relic in the attic. This past Monday I celebrated my 61 birthday. I spent the day taking care of my grandson. We had a good time. We went for a walk since at age 2, he is not yet up to a serious hike. He played with his "hook," a quasi-weapon made for him by his father, which he used to make the backyard safe for his G.Daddy to sit on the back porch and drink coffee. I have my Field Manual from the 1970's. When he is old enough, I will be so proud to see him enroll in Cub Scouting ... then Boy Scouting ... then Explorer Scouting. I have a granddaughter in NYC. She is almost 1 year old. Down the road, I will be looking for a way to get her enrolled in Scouting. NYC is not a bedroom community in Georgia. But she will need the life skills and leadership development offered by Scouting and I intend to see to it that she has that opportunity. When my identical-twin brother and I received our Eagle Scout rank, we were the first identical twins in the Central Ga. Council to ever earn and receive that award on the same date. The Council commissioned a Eagle Scout pin for my mother. The normal pin w/ a single eagle was used as a pattern for a local jeweler to produce a Double Eagle pin. That pin is currently in my wife's jewelry chest. What a hoot it would be if one day both my grandson and granddaughter were to be Eagles! I would be so proud of them. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

 

[Muss Muggins]

BSA's membership roles took a gigantic hit when the Mormons, who constituted nearly half of chartered units, checked out. Finally, after years and years of minor modifications to attempt to attract a wider audience, they had to take the big one. I'm glad I'm out . . .