Ouch!

[dmn57]

I took an old first-generation Universal M1 Carbine to the range yesterday to burn up the last 50 rounds of .30 Carbine I had before trying to sell it. The gun had been cleaned and serviced regularly in the last few years and was running pretty well. The first couple of mags cycled flawlessly. However, about halfway through mag number three - POW! I was stunned for a few seconds and not real sure what just happened. As the fog began to clear I saw that a grenaded round was stuck between the chamber and the partially opened bolt. Remnants of the mag, which also pretty much exploded, along with the remaining unfired rounds, were scattered about. I eventually noticed chunks of the stock blown around as well. And drips of blood were beginning to plop down off the end of my snout.

After churning through tens of thousands of rounds over the years, this was a new experience for me. At first I thought maybe I got a hot charge from the factory but after thinking about it, which I did a lot of in the last day, I’m wondering if the rifle fired with the bolt being out of battery. The blowout of the cartridge is near the base, possibly indicating the round may not have been fully chambered. I suppose I’ll never know.

I haven’t inspected the bolt or chamber for damage yet but I’m pretty sure the rifle is heading for the scrap heap; doubt I’d ever be able to trust it again. As far as damage to the user, I caught a few small pieces of shrapnel to the mug but the bleeding stopped quickly with pressure applied. The only other issue was the bit of rash I got after soiling myself just a smidge. In retrospect it could have been a lot worse, and I’m really glad it didn’t happen with one of my .308’s.

 

[326MOD10]

Sorry this happened to you but glad your injuries were minor.

Scarry for sure regardless of the cause.

 

[cdrtom]

If it were in my possession, I would strip it of as many reusable parts as I could, including the undamaged wood parts, and sell on eBay or elsewhere - so many gun lovers always looking for spare parts; and, it's not like using most parts will cause the next rifle to blow up. I do this with many damaged firearms, with salvageable parts, as I can acquire, especially since some of my rebuilds are "resting" and awaiting my finding of hen's teeth replacement parts. Otherwise, I'm glad to hear you experienced no serious injuries - I've had 3 pistols do the same thing.

 

[Rudi]

Lucky for sure. At least you won't have the hassle of selling it.

 

[desi2358]

From the looks of that shell casing I would agree it was an out of battery explosion. The later Universals were vulnerable to this (they modified the bolt design being the main reason) but I haven't seen it happen with an early one. The military carbine bolt is designed to prevent the firing pin from being driven forward by the hammer unless the bolt is fully closed. If not closed the hammer energy is dissipated pushing the bolt into battery. Don't know what caused it in this case but there should still be a number of good, usable parts left.

 

[swagmeister]

cdrtom has good advice. Keep all the parts you can from it. Glad was not any worse.

 

[Faulkner]

Not the first time I've heard stories like this about Universals. Usually, though, the complaints are they don't work well enough to blow up.

 

[jimmyj]

Please tell us you were wearing safety glasses ?

 

[oberon]

A stuck FP can cause an OOB discharge. There may be no problem with the mechanical parts. Replace the wood & magazine, be sure the FP channel is clear and not gunked up, get the GS to check it out. Then decide if you should part it out or not.

 

[TJm15.38]

I've had a couple of slam fires in a Chinese SKS because of a gunked up firing pin, but I've never seen anything this catastrophic. You are fortunate you weren't seriously injured. I would trash that carbine if it were mine.

 

[diyj98]

A stuck firing pin was my first thought when I read the original post, but who knows what could have happened. Luckly no serious injuries. I agree I'd have a hard time trusting that rifle again.

 

[dmn57]

Thanks for all the input. At best I might try to part it out, and yes sir, I was wearing safety glasses .

 

[oneeyedpete]

What ammo was that? It looks like steel case ammo.

 

[dmn57]

The ammo was Remington Core-Lokt Soft Point.

 

[Revelation]

I took an old first-generation Universal M1 Carbine to the range yesterday to burn up the last 50 rounds of .30 Carbine I had before trying to sell it. The gun had been cleaned and serviced regularly in the last few years and was running pretty well. The first couple of mags cycled flawlessly. However, about halfway through mag number three - POW! I was stunned for a few seconds and not real sure what just happened. As the fog began to clear I saw that a grenaded round was stuck between the chamber and the partially opened bolt. Remnants of the mag, which also pretty much exploded, along with the remaining unfired rounds, were scattered about. I eventually noticed chunks of the stock blown around as well. And drips of blood were beginning to plop down off the end of my snout.

After churning through tens of thousands of rounds over the years, this was a new experience for me. At first I thought maybe I got a hot charge from the factory but after thinking about it, which I did a lot of in the last day, I'm wondering if the rifle fired with the bolt being out of battery. The blowout of the cartridge is near the base, possibly indicating the round may not have been fully chambered. I suppose I'll never know.

I haven't inspected the bolt or chamber for damage yet but I'm pretty sure the rifle is heading for the scrap heap; doubt I'd ever be able to trust it again. As far as damage to the user, I caught a few small pieces of shrapnel to the mug but the bleeding stopped quickly with pressure applied. The only other issue was the bit of rash I got after soiling myself just a smidge. In retrospect it could have been a lot worse, and I'm really glad it didn't happen with one of my .308's.

View attachment 798155
View attachment 798156

That's a "close call!" Glad your here and able to talk about it! God is with you!

 

[tires2burn]

I hate when that happens.

 

[shovelmike]

I'm glad you were not hurt worse.

 

[Phenix]

I took an old first-generation Universal M1 Carbine to the range yesterday to burn up the last 50 rounds of .30 Carbine I had before trying to sell it. The gun had been cleaned and serviced regularly in the last few years and was running pretty well. The first couple of mags cycled flawlessly. However, about halfway through mag number three - POW! I was stunned for a few seconds and not real sure what just happened. As the fog began to clear I saw that a grenaded round was stuck between the chamber and the partially opened bolt. Remnants of the mag, which also pretty much exploded, along with the remaining unfired rounds, were scattered about. I eventually noticed chunks of the stock blown around as well. And drips of blood were beginning to plop down off the end of my snout.

After churning through tens of thousands of rounds over the years, this was a new experience for me. At first I thought maybe I got a hot charge from the factory but after thinking about it, which I did a lot of in the last day, I'm wondering if the rifle fired with the bolt being out of battery. The blowout of the cartridge is near the base, possibly indicating the round may not have been fully chambered. I suppose I'll never know.

I haven't inspected the bolt or chamber for damage yet but I'm pretty sure the rifle is heading for the scrap heap; doubt I'd ever be able to trust it again. As far as damage to the user, I caught a few small pieces of shrapnel to the mug but the bleeding stopped quickly with pressure applied. The only other issue was the bit of rash I got after soiling myself just a smidge. In retrospect it could have been a lot worse, and I'm really glad it didn't happen with one of my .308's.

View attachment 798155
View attachment 798156

Almost certainly an out of battery discharge.
Not very familiar with the Universal guns, but the WW II guns always had what I thought was a slightly weak return to battery spring. Can’t say if that caused your problem or not.
Of all the military type rifles I have owned or shot, the WW II GI carbine is my favorite
I am on my third one.
I never really took to the Garands, fine battle rifles though they were. Too bulky and clunky for my tastes. I did always like the way the empty clip “pinged” out of the top of the action when it was empty!

 

[max503]

A stuck FP can cause an OOB discharge. There may be no problem with the mechanical parts. Replace the wood & magazine, be sure the FP channel is clear and not gunked up, get the GS to check it out. Then decide if you should part it out or not.

I've had a couple of slam fires in a Chinese SKS because of a gunked up firing pin, but I've never seen anything this catastrophic. You are fortunate you weren't seriously injured. I would trash that carbine if it were mine.

A stuck firing pin was my first thought when I read the original post, but who knows what could have happened. Luckly no serious injuries. I agree I'd have a hard time trusting that rifle again.

I got a Bersa 22 from a friend who hadn't cleaned it in decades. It shot a few doubles/triples because of a gunked up firing pin channel till I cleaned it.

 

[smith&wesson101]

I took an old first-generation Universal M1 Carbine to the range yesterday to burn up the last 50 rounds of .30 Carbine I had before trying to sell it. The gun had been cleaned and serviced regularly in the last few years and was running pretty well. The first couple of mags cycled flawlessly. However, about halfway through mag number three - POW! I was stunned for a few seconds and not real sure what just happened. As the fog began to clear I saw that a grenaded round was stuck between the chamber and the partially opened bolt. Remnants of the mag, which also pretty much exploded, along with the remaining unfired rounds, were scattered about. I eventually noticed chunks of the stock blown around as well. And drips of blood were beginning to plop down off the end of my snout.

After churning through tens of thousands of rounds over the years, this was a new experience for me. At first I thought maybe I got a hot charge from the factory but after thinking about it, which I did a lot of in the last day, I'm wondering if the rifle fired with the bolt being out of battery. The blowout of the cartridge is near the base, possibly indicating the round may not have been fully chambered. I suppose I'll never know.

I haven't inspected the bolt or chamber for damage yet but I'm pretty sure the rifle is heading for the scrap heap; doubt I'd ever be able to trust it again. As far as damage to the user, I caught a few small pieces of shrapnel to the mug but the bleeding stopped quickly with pressure applied. The only other issue was the bit of rash I got after soiling myself just a smidge. In retrospect it could have been a lot worse, and I'm really glad it didn't happen with one of my .308's.

View attachment 798155
View attachment 798156

Commercial carbines use cast bolts and slides, which by definition, are of poor quality. Cast steel cannot be properly heat treated by the average company, and if they are, it takes a great deal of expertise. The moral of the story, do not fire Universal, Plainfield, and several other companies carbines that were sued into bankruptcy over the issue of failed metal components. Additional names can be found on the web or under US bankruptcy court listings. Be careful!

 

[Riposte1]

I had a Universal carbine, and shot it a lot. Guess I was lucky. I sure don't doubt the story.

My carbine had a stamped steel charging handle and two coil springs to return it forward on rods.

It was adequately accurate and I don't recall having a stoppage but I had military surplus carbines I liked better and finally traded it off. I did notice the front of the charging handle assemply was a bit peened and I did dress that down.

I dont really disagree with those who say they are not up to the quality of the G.I. carbines.

That said I had a cousin who had a M1 Carbine - forget which contractor - that blew up. Fortunately his only damaged the bolt and I had an extra and we got it back into working order.

It was US made factory ammo and he was meticulous about keeping his weapons clean but we figure, since the carbine firing pin does not have a return spring, that the stop on his bolt was just a bit off and let it strike the primer micro seconds too early?

Might be one of these things we will never know.

Just Ramblin'

Riposte

 

[Dave Haynes]

If I'm not mistaken Universal used some GI parts and some company made parts. That looks like one of their two spring models. I've never seen a carbine blow up but I know it happened during targeting of new GI guns, the cause being cartridge cases being too long. Remington commercial cases are 1.285" well below the danger level of 1.290" so it was something else. GI FP and extractors had serious heat treating problems during production. Maybe a reject or defective FP sold on the surplus part market or foreign made? I've never considered one of these ersatz carbines to be particularly safe.

 

[Sal1950]

Bummer, just glad you weren't injured badly. I love Carbines, even carried a M2 select fire model in Nam 1969 for a while. My dad was WW 2 Infantry Vet and he kept a Carbine and a Garand in the gun cabinet since I was just a little kid. I still own all of my dad's rifles and his 1911 45 ACP plus my collection. I love to take 1 or 2 of his guns to the range on his B-Day and stuff like that.
I was 11B10 Infantry with the 1st Cav and carried either the Carbine or a M3 greaser, I just never could warm up to that Tupperware thing but always kept a broken down M16 in my ruck to keep my LT happy.

 

[44MOshooter]

Wow Sorry to hear about that, glad to hear you're relatively ok, what a scare, I've never had that problem.

The cartridge that exploded appear to be unsupported by the chamber, which would indicate it fired out of battery. Take a real good look at your firing pin, it could've been stuck?

 

[Gun Nut #13]

That was definitely an out of battery fire! You can clearly see that the front half of the case was fully contained in the barrel and didn't swell but the rear was uncontained. Look at the bolt and see if the firing pin is stuck in the out position. Also post a picture of the rear of the fired case so that we can see the firing pin strike. I would not be surprised to find that your ejector and extractor are missing!

Post #22 is correct, the early Universals were made completely of Mil Surp parts except for the receiver which the Gov had destroyed and that Uni had to replace. But as time went of the supply of Mil Surp parts dried up and Uni had to make more and more of their own parts. Obviously of a poorer material, heat treat and fit and finish than the original parts. And as time continued Uni changed the design of a number of parts and the guns became even less safe and less reliable. The Uni carbines with the perforated metal upper hand guards are a good example of that. You should disassemble your gun and see if it's designed exactly as the original US GI versions and how many US GI marked parts it has it it. It might contain a number of valuable US GI parts. Original stocks are highly sought after. But even some of the Uni parts might be somewhat valuable to someone looking to repair their own Uni gun.

I have a good number of original US GI carbines and also about four Unis with various amounts of original vs Uni parts and even a couple of the other odd ball aftermarket carbines such as an Alpina and one marked Buffalo Arms (not the barrel, the receiver) and another one made in California that I can't recall the name of. My early Uni and a fully sporterized USGI carbine are my goto shooters.

I don't consider myself an expert on the carbines but my dad was a huge collector of them and always explaining all of the different parts and different versions and I inherited his collection and a lot of his knowledge of them.

Joe

 

[smith&wesson101]

I had a Universal carbine, and shot it a lot. Guess I was lucky. I sure don't doubt the story.

My carbine had a stamped steel charging handle and two coil springs to return it forward on rods.

It was adequately accurate and I don't recall having a stoppage but I had military surplus carbines I liked better and finally traded it off. I did notice the front of the charging handle assemply was a bit peened and I did dress that down.

I dont really disagree with those who say they are not up to the quality of the G.I. carbines.

That said I had a cousin who had a M1 Carbine - forget which contractor - that blew up. Fortunately his only damaged the bolt and I had an extra and we got it back into working order.

It was US made factory ammo and he was meticulous about keeping his weapons clean but we figure, since the carbine firing pin does not have a return spring, that the stop on his bolt was just a bit off and let it strike the primer micro seconds too early?

Might be one of these things we will never know.

Just Ramblin'

Riposte

There is one type of carbine ammo that was, and may still be, on the market. It is the French 30 carbine. It is loaded 10 percent above SAMMI restrictions as the French have a 30 carbine machine gun and needed positive operation.
It, at one time, come in a white box with black lettering. If you have it, use it at your own risk. If you see it for sale, keep walking.
I think you can research this problem on the web under French 30 carbine ammo problems

 

[oneeyedpete]

I'd agree it is an OOB situation. The most frequent cause is a stuck firing pin igniting the cartridge before it fully enters the chamber. The bolt would tell you the full story. I'd disassemble it and see what the interior of the FP channel and the FP look like. Replacing the entire bolt assembly might fix the problem.

 

[jimmyj]

There is one type of carbine ammo that was, and may still be, on the market. It is the French 30 carbine. It is loaded 10 percent above SAMMI restrictions as the French have a 30 carbine machine gun and needed positive operation.
It, at one time, come in a white box with black lettering. If you have it, use it at your own risk. If you see it for sale, keep walking.
I think you can research this problem on the web under French 30 carbine ammo problems

The French .30 Carbine Ammo has corrosive primers.

 

[CH4]

OBB firing and the M1 carbine isn’t uncommon. They weren’t made to last 80 years, they’re were made to be disposable.

 

[Phenix]

The French .30 Carbine Ammo has corrosive primers.

The only corrosive Carbine ammo out there that I ever heard of was some Chinese stuff made 4 or 5 decades ago.However, you might be right about that French ammo.
I’ll file that little tidbit away in my Portfolio Of Carbine Knowledge.