Overcoming the "tactical" mindset

[Donn]

I've also ran into a few guys that treat going to Safeway to pick up a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread like a covert insertion into North Vietnam.
Am I the only one that got caught up in that mindset when I first started carrying? Am I the only one that woke up one morning and asked myself do I really need to carry all this **** with me everywhere I go.

You're preaching to the choir, Smoke. I too am baffled by these guys who can't go to the mailbox without two guns, ten pounds of spare ammo and a Ka-Bar fighting knife. On any other forum, make a statement like this and I guarantee you'll get flamed by the "what if" crowd. Happens to me on a daily basis. You'd think these guys lived in Fallujah or next door to the Medellin drug cartel.

 

[ASA335]

No, you're not the only one.

Am I the only one that got caught up in that mindset when I first started carrying? Am I the only one that woke up one morning and asked myself do I really need to carry all this **** with me everywhere I go?

Simple and practical is good enough for me now.

I don't daily carry much more than a gun, maybe one reload, a single-blade utility knife, and maybe a small flashlight and cell phone when I'm off duty – and these few items are starting to push it to the extreme for me.

Years ago I felt I needed all the cool goodies, but not anymore.

 

[pawncop]

Smoke,

Welcome to maturity, your experiences will temper your training, you should be prepared for the situations that are most likely to occur.

Now as I am waiting for maturity to visit me, I guess I'll go test fire and clean the Maw Duece and monitor the 26 alarm sensors.

 

[ASA335]

Example

Many moons ago as a new deputy, when I was young (21 y/o), fit and impressionable, I bought all the new cool gadgets to hang from my duty belt and carry with me.

My duty belt consisted of:

Belt and four keepers
Under belt
Holster and revolver (S&W M58 at the time) with ammo
Double pouch and two speed loaders for spare ammo
Double dump pouch for more spare ammo
Cuff case and handcuffs
Flashlight ring and seven "C" cell Kel-Light (pre Mag Light)
Baton ring and baton
Holster with S&W Mk 5 Mace gun (with mace canister in the grip)
Case and Buck knife
Pouch with thumb-cuffs
Two flex-cuffs under the belt (really nothing much more than big electrical ties)
Key case
Case and radio

Off belt, I also had a flat sap in my sap pocket and a BUG in my jacket pocket.

I don't remember what the whole shebang weighed, or how I fit all that stuff on my then skinny waist, but I was young (and dumb) so I didn't mind the weight.

One night I was chasing a sixteen year old thief through some back yard as he jumped over a small fence (maybe three feet high). As I attempted to jump the same fence, I didn't attain enough elevation to clear the fence! I tumbled face first in to the grass and he got away from me.

When I returned to the office, dirtied, bruised and embarrassed, I started pulling "stuff" of my belt to lighten it and cut down on anything that might swing or cause me to be off balance, such as:

Double dump pouch for more spare ammo (kept additional spare boxed ammo in the car)
Flashlight ring and seven "C" cell Kel-Light (kept a three "D" cell Kel-Light available in the car)
Baton (kept it available in the car). Kept the baton ring on the belt
Holster and S&W Mk 5 Mace Gun (didn't work all that well any way)
Pouch and thumb-cuffs (never found a need for them)

Took the flat sap off also, but kept sap gloves available in the car.

Today, I'm required to have an expandable baton and an OC canister on my duty belt. If I had my druthers, I'd remove them.

 

[loc n load]

Perspectives

I agree with you guy's...it can all be overdone.....I was a "meat eater" for most of my career and was on call all of the time and planned & trained accordingly, that was then and this is now...Having been retired for several years, I still maintain my skill sets that are applicable - not doing much fast roping from helo's or explosive entries these days..., maintain my situational awareness, and carry what I think is appropriate....and avoid any potential trouble or "dumb places or dummies who do dumb things".....

 

[Smithsrevenge]

I just ranted about this on one of my threads. I dont get it. I honestly don't see the point.

I work in armed protection. We deal with everything from drunks, to meth heads, burglaries, trespassing, domestic violence, assaults, attempted shooting and stabbings etc. It gets rough.

I personally buy everything I wear and use at work from what some internet jockeys would consider the "Tactical creme of the crop"....safariland, 5.11, Streamlight, manodnock etc. Ya know the stuff that your smiling when its in your hand in the store, then sad when the cash register rings up $249.99 for a holster, or $179.99 for a flashlight.

However I don't do it because its 'COOL' or because some loudmouth on youtube SAID i should buy it. I buy it because its quality. Now what I spend 30 minutes trying to finagle onto my person before work is stuff that I NEED for work. Tools that help me do my job better, keep myself and my officers safer as well as the public that we are surrounded with on a daily basis. I also buy things that make such tools easier to reach when i need them, and harder for others to take when then feel like it.

However that's for WORK. and my company does not supply equipment. Right now I wear about $3,200 worth of gear on me from the uniform, to collar-brass, to boots, holsters duty belt and accessories and everything that goes inside them. My stuff has "tactical branding" but I don't buy it because it says "tactical" on it. I buy it because its really good stuff that is expensive.....but lasts forever. Now when a cheap cuff case costs $5 on ebay and wears out in 3 weeks, and a safariland costs $34 and wears out in 4 years. I'm gonna by the "cool" stuff because well I dont make a 6 figure income per year and would rather buy quality than quantity.

That is where that all stops. When I get home....all my "tac-ti-kool" gear comes off, my uniform is hung, my badge is shined with my boots and it all gets locked up.

I then put on some skater shoes, levi's, a T-shirt and shove my Sig, or S&W into a compfy IWB holster and I leave the world of tactical accessories.

Why? Outside of work I have zero need for any of it. My pocket knife? Ozark trail....Cost $10 at walmart haha. My footwear is from there too, pants I may have gotten at goodwill. My watch will not tell me barometric pressure or altitude , I don't have paracord bracelets, I dont own molly gear. My Ar has a red dot on it and a foreend grip. Thats it. No shell catches, magnifiers, no bipods or magpul's NOTHING. Because I don't need it. I am not fighting a war, I have no use for a battle rattle, or a camelback.

When I go to Walmart, I go to Walmart and bring a pistol. Sometimes 2 mags max....including the one that's in the gun . I dont look for every exit. I don't have a strategy or plan other than picking up toilet paper. I'm a Former Marine.......If something goes wrong, I'll improvise.

I dont have a layout of my house, I don't have guns hidden all over the place , I don't watch the walking dead in full battle gear. I don't hoard weapons and plan for an apocalypse.

IM A NORMAL GUY outside of work.

Honestly I cannot understand these youtube hero's that go to the range and dress like a navy seal........WHY WASTE THE MONEY?. I have no idea. Nor do I believe I ever will :/

 

[kaaskop49]

Weight is now a big issue for me. Fortunately, my Mernickle OWB belt scabbard will hold any and all J-frame snubs and my old IWB suede rigs, the same. I'll change out to a .357 chambering when I feel the situation calls for it. Recently, a group of mutts in the valley were targeting older males exiting cars at their homes, beating them severely. So my 360Sc saw the light of day for a while. I check my surroundings religiously. Situational awareness never hurts, which is why I say that a ton of prevention is worth an ounce of cure.

 

[Smithsrevenge]

Many moons ago as a new deputy, when I was young (21 y/o), fit and impressionable, I bought all the new cool gadgets to hang from my duty belt and carry with me.

My duty belt consisted of:

Belt and four keepers
Under belt
Holster and revolver (S&W M58 at the time) with ammo
Double pouch and two speed loaders for spare ammo
Double dump pouch for more spare ammo
Cuff case and handcuffs
Flashlight ring and seven "C" cell Kel-Light (pre Mag Light)
Baton ring and baton
Holster with S&W Mk 5 Mace gun (with mace canister in the grip)
Case and Buck knife
Pouch with thumb-cuffs
Two flex-cuffs under the belt (really nothing much more than big electrical ties)
Key case
Case and radio

Off belt, I also had a flat sap in my sap pocket and a BUG in my jacket pocket.

I don't remember what the whole shebang weighed, or how I fit all that stuff on my then skinny waist, but I was young (and dumb) so I didn't mind the weight.

One night I was chasing a sixteen year old thief through some back yard as he jumped over a small fence (maybe three feet high). As I attempted to jump the same fence, I didn't attain enough elevation to clear the fence! I tumbled face first in to the grass and he got away from me.

When I returned to the office, dirtied, bruised and embarrassed, I started pulling "stuff" of my belt to lighten it and cut down on anything that might swing or cause me to be off balance, such as:

Double dump pouch for more spare ammo (kept additional spare boxed ammo in the car)
Flashlight ring and seven "C" cell Kel-Light (kept a three "D" cell Kel-Light available in the car)
Baton (kept it available in the car). Kept the baton ring on the belt
Holster and S&W Mk 5 Mace Gun (didn't work all that well any way)
Pouch and thumb-cuffs (never found a need for them)

Took the flat sap off also, but kept sap gloves available in the car.

Today, I'm required to have an expandable baton and an OC canister on my duty belt. If I had my druthers, I'd remove them.

Just be glad you dont have my loadout haha

Belt and 4 keepers.
Under belt
Sabre red and pouch
2x S&W M100 cuffs
2x mag carrier and 2 13rnd mags
leatherman and pouch
Key keeper and keys
Radio and holster
Streamlight Stinger HL light and pouch
Glove pouch x 2 pairs non latex gloves
Cuff pouch
Cuff snap in the front for second pair
Manodnock autolock *heavy!*
baton case.
Safariland 070 Leather Level III holster/ or safariland 6360 Light bearing thigh rig *wearing that now due to wrist injury*
Sig 229 in .357 *heavy!* w/sometimes a Streamlight TLR-1HL weaponlight.
Blackhawk Taser rig, x2 taser and 2 spare cartridges.
Kahr Cw9 BUG somewhere hidden ;-)
Leather duty gloves.
2nd chance vest with Level 3 armor and 2 steel trauma plates
5.11 boots
5.11 class B pants, 6 pockets all containing something useful let weight adding.
5.11 duty shirt with almost a Lb of brass on it being a Lieutenant :-/
Heavy duty jacket with arm pockets full of business cards, keys and access cards. pockets contain note book and site citation book.

Whole shebang weighs close to 70lbs!.

I'm 6'4 195 naked............imagine how much I weigh on duty. I tell ya.....gets to the lower back and makes running not a long distance sport, burn out around a mile and just run out of gas and stop haha. In the summer months at 80*+ that is halved haha

 

[Clovishound]

Some may disagree with my procedures, but that's OK.

I will be 60 in a few months. I have been all over the world. I have worked as an armed security guard for a while. I have carried for duty and as a private citizen.

I have never been in a situation where I felt like I needed to pull a weapon and defend myself.

I have a permit. I carry periodically. I carry mainly to stay in practice. I train at the range a couple times a month, mostly because I enjoy shooting as a hobby. I also feel that if I have a permit, I should be competent and safe with the weapon I can carry.

If my risk potential changes, I will change my carry habits.
If I need more than the 10 rounds I carry, I am in too deep anyway.
If you feel the need to carry all the time, I support you.
If you feel the need for backup mags/guns etc, I support you.

 

[Smoke]

I make it a rule never to leave my home with out a firearm even if I'm only going to the laundry room. If I'm not actually leaving the apartments I just throw my wife's LCP in my pocket.

Beyond that it gets situational but generally I always carry my wallet and keys even to the laundry room. If I'm actually leaving home I generally have a pocket flashlight, a multi tool and a pocket knife and usually a handkerchief.

That's about as tactical as I get these days.

 

[Smoke]

I realize it's a slightly different topic but when I'm not at work I don't wear anything "tactical" because I believe it draws unwanted attention.

There's one guy at my church that always comes in wearing "tactical" pants, a 5.11 shirt, a photography vest, combat boots, a rigger belt and an NRA certified instructor hat, all in desert tan. It's like he wants everyone to know he's carrying with out actually telling anyone.

There's a guy that lives in the same apartment complex I do that is always walking around in his Karate pants that I get the same vibe from. IMO He's "sending a message", he wants the whole world to know that he's not the guy you want to mess with out actually saying it. The funny thing is he's also fat and out of shape.

My work uniform is 5.11 "Tactical" Pants, the ones with the little strappy thing across the right rear pocket and a 5.11 "Tactical" (apparently the fact that there's a pen pocket on the sleeve is what makes it tactical) Polo which is actually a nice shirt. I wouldn't pay 50 bucks for it but it is a nice shirt.

If I'm going to get mall ninja about anything it would be my footwear, I spend the vast majority of my day on my feet and I'm willing to pay for good boots. I wear Belleville 700 "duty" boots because I haven't found anything else as durable and comfortable that's made in America and that's about the only thing that I'm "brand loyal" to, I even bought a pair of their ACU boots for hiking.

That said, when I'm not at work I don't wear that stuff (except for the ACU boots). I even throw on an over shirt when I come home to hide the security logos on my uniform because it's been my experience that when people see you in a security uniform just out and about they either think you're security for where ever you are or, if they get caught doing something they're not supposed to they think you ratted them out.

I have the same attitude about "tactical" garments. IMO they send a message that I don't want sent. They make me stand out from the crowd in a way that I don't want to stand out.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

When I was in Vietnam (airborne infantry, pathfinders) there were times when we just could not get gear that could have been genuinely helpful in fulfilling our missions. On a couple of visits to Saigon and DaNang I couldn't help but notice that every clerk typist and supply weenie seemed to be wearing camouflage fatigues and boonie hats for that full "tactical" look while going to the movies, pizza shack, etc.

In my opinion there are a lot of folks out there who enjoy living another life vicariously, adopting certain modes of dress (whether tactical operations or just cowboy, etc) to project a lifestyle that they wish they could live.

The nice folks at 5-11 won't stop selling tactical clothing and accessories to some folks any time before Stetson stops selling hats to other folks. Some folks who might be very well served with a good S&W Model 10 won't be happy until they have the latest Glock or Sig loaded down with tactical lights, lasers, maybe an MP3 player.

Just completed and shipped out a double shoulder holster rig to a customer who just had to have that, and was ready to pay for it. Several times every week I have to try and explain to some folks that a triple mag pouch with tactical light carrier and handcuff case is not very likely to be comfortable or concealable while off-duty or in plainclothes.

 

[duppie]

I always wondered about those pictures you would see on the "Show us your EDC's" threads.
Depictions of 2 guns,2 back up mags or speedloaders,2 folding knives,2 flash lights,a multitool,fat wallet,8 pounds of keys with an additional penlight and smaller multitool,tactical pen,fancy watch,cell phone..........and a chapstick.
Then I ask myself 2 questions,,, where do these folks live or travel to to need all this hardware daily and what are they wearing to effectively conceal it...... A burka?

 

[shouldazagged]

There's one guy at my church that always comes in wearing "tactical" pants, a 5.11 shirt, a photography vest, combat boots, a rigger belt and an NRA certified instructor hat, all in desert tan. It's like he wants everyone to know he's carrying with out actually telling anyone.

There's a guy that lives in the same apartment complex I do that is always walking around in his Karate pants that I get the same vibe from. IMO He's "sending a message", he wants the whole to know that he's not the guy you want to mess with out actually saying it.

Subtlety is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

So is fantasy. Some of the SWAT and Special Forces wannabes are kind of halfway between funny and sad to me, but I keep coming back to the same point: get a life!

Some others, the kind who appear to hope for trouble, disgust me.

Side note: why would anyone want a camouflaged knife, blade and all, or an all-black one? If you drop the former in daytime you may have a heck of a time finding it, and if you fumble the latter after dark...I don't get it.

 

[duppie]

Subtlety is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

So is fantasy. Some of the SWAT and Special Forces wannabes are kind of halfway between funny and sad to me, but I keep coming back to the same point: get a life!

Some others, the kind who appear to hope for trouble, disgust me.

Side note: why would anyone want a camouflaged knife, blade and all, or an all-black one? If you drop the former in daytime you may have a heck of a time finding it, and if you fumble the latter after dark...I don't get it.

I concur.
I wear predominantly black clothing simply because I'm color blind,lazy when it come to matching and worked in NYC's Greenwhich Village for too many years.
However I make it a point to wear almost comical "golf wear" to the range just so I'm not confused with Tactical Aficionados and gung ho LEO types.

 

[sac-gunslinger]

The 4th gun I carry under a cap

Is that the difficult-to-find Bianchi Ballcap Holster? Or the famous Buscadero Hat Band holster?

 

[tlay]

I am sorry but every time I hear the word "tactical" I want to puke. I give NRA pistol classes in our area and you would not believe how some of the guys show up to class. They are decked out in black from head to toe. These are the guys who inform anyone who will listen to them of how many gooks they killed in Nam. It takes every ounce of will power to not call them on this. These guys end up not being able to hit the target and then blame it on the gun. The people who want to learn and listen will always outshoot them.
If I never hear tactical again I will be happy.

 

[arjay]

I can't imagine where the non shooters get the idea that we are all kooks from...

 

[sac-gunslinger]

I generally have a pocket flashlight, a multi tool and a pocket knife and usually a handkerchief.

That's about as tactical as I get these days.

But, Smoke, is it a camouflage handkerchief?

 

[S&W45Colt]

I alternate between both and duct taping it to my head. The duct tape works best, but I get tired of having a sore head. They did not warn me about that in my double super secret mall ninja training class.

Funny now that I think about, it was never covered in BLET or in service. Hmmm... I'm thinking that must make me a cutting edge, tactical kind of guy!!

I'm thinking about installing a stomp trigger in my boot instead, I just gotta figure out how to work out the missing my big toe thing.....