+P 38 Special Nonsense Regarding Model 10

[amd6547]

I am a member of a few gun forums. Today, an individual asked the same question on two of them:
"Is it safe to shoot +P in a heavy barreled Model 10 bought new in 1971".
Argument ensued...one individual even opined that the K frame was never meant for plus P...that's what the L frame was for!
The original poster finally called S&W....Here is his post:
"....Spoke with a rep. in the tech. dept. at S&W. He told me that as of 1982 they heat treated the revolver so that it could take the pressure of the +P round. Prior to 82', the revolver was not manufactured for the +P and he recommended to stick with the .38 special cartridge..."

Oh well...

 

[roaddog28]

I don't know who the person talked to at Smith & Wesson but he or she should read their manual before making a statement like that.

Here is what S&W says about +P ammo in their 38 special according to there online manual.
“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures
associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect
the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety built into some
revolvers and could therefore be DANGEROUS. This ammunition
should not be used in Smith & Wesson medium (K frame) revolvers
manufactured prior to 1958. Such pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers
can be identified by the absence of a model number stamped inside the
yoke cut of the frame (i.e., the area of the frame exposed when the
cylinder is in the open position).

So, any revolver model 10 made after 1958 is safe to shoot +P ammo.

Now I am going to let you know the real story. S&W has been heat treating cylinders at least since 1930. Also, todays plus P ammo is what standard pressure was back before 1972. I am going to give you a link from a well known member on this forum. He has done a lot of research and is knowlegeable on this subject.
Shooting with Hobie

 

[Fox Creek]

Now THAT is interesting Roaddog28...pre-1972 "standard" velocity ammo was same pressure as current "+P" ammo? Seems somewhat analagous to the old early .357 Mag ammo supposed much hotter than later. Or is it just that advances in propellant technologies allowed the standard velocity laods to operate a lower pressure?

 

[amd6547]

I know, I know...I found it humorous that a person, and apparently S&W, thinks it unsafe to shoot today's "+P" 38 spl ammo in a '70's heavy barrel Model 10.

 

[dma1]

Interesting read....Thanks.

 

[roaddog28]

Now THAT is interesting Roaddog28...pre-1972 "standard" velocity ammo was same pressure as current "+P" ammo? Seems somewhat analagous to the old early .357 Mag ammo supposed much hotter than later. Or is it just that advances in propellant technologies allowed the standard velocity laods to operate a lower pressure?

Hi Fox Creek,
Did you read the link I enclosed. The standard pressure 38 special back before 1972 was running at 850 to 900 fps. This round is still below 38 special SAAMI pressures. The SAAMI standard 21500 psi for 38 special. The pressure for the round above is in 18000 range. Todays standard pressure is running at 730 fps for the 158 gr LRN.
Most "+P" rounds today are running 900 fps to 925 fps. Of course there are exceptions but +P now is more of a marketing tool by ammo makers I believe ammo companies downgraded the standard pressure to guard against a consumer shooting the old round in a wornout revolver and having issues.
The original poster on the other forums was talking about a model 10 heavy barrel made in 1971. I believe he got some poor advice.
I am using +P 38s in a`M&P 4 inch made in 1954. No issues. I use for SD Remingtons LSWCHP 158 gr +P. I shoot a box every other month.
Regards.
Howard

 

[wetdog]

Thanks. Very interesting info.

 

[Art Doc]

Here you go...


Shooting with Hobie

 

[Rawhyde]

One day, I might gather up the courage to touch off a .38 Special +P. I think if I put on some really think welding gloves, I might be able to touch off one round in my Dan Wesson .357 SuperMag. If I ever work up the courage to try, and I actually survive...I'll post up a report!

 

[GF]

Here you go...


Shooting with Hobie

For the love of God, make that a sticky.

GF

 

[Jack Flash]

One day, I might gather up the courage to touch off a .38 Special +P. I think if I put on some really thick welding gloves, I might be able to touch off one round in my Dan Wesson .357 SuperMag. If I ever work up the courage to try, and I actually survive...I'll post up a report!

Don't forget to wear a welder's full face shield. For luck, you might also want to put on a kelvar vest.

 

[Lenny_D]

GF is right mag that to the fridge!

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Now I am going to let you know the real story. S&W has been heat treating cylinders at least since 1930. Also, todays plus P ammo is what standard pressure was back before 1972. I am going to give you a link from a well known member on this forum. He has done a lot of research and is knowlegeable on this subject.
Shooting with Hobie

I had really been hoping someone would re-post this as I had forgotten where I read it.

I think GF is right; this really ought to be a sticky because I see the debate over .38 Spl +P over and over again.

My compromise for a Model 10 .38 Spl +P is a model 547.

 

[roaddog28]

For the love of God, make that a sticky.

GF

+1. Just about every week this topic comes up. I think if we had a sticky on this subject it would cutdown the question of, can I shoot +P 38s through my model 10-10 heavy barrel?
Howard

 

[oldafsp]

Yes. Please make this a sticky.

I have been shooting +P's for over 40 years in K frames. I still have all my appendages. And no blown up revolvers.

 

[336A]

For the love of God, make that a sticky.

GF

+100 to that.

 

[bmcgilvray]

This Model 10-6 was shipped in June of 1971. It's been hammered with both +P factory loads and even heavier experimental handloads over many years time. After over 30 years of heavy shooting use it had a bushing stuck in it to minimize end-shake. If it'll make another 30 years it'll about see me out.

Factory +P is no problem in Model 10 revolvers.

 

[ralph7]

i heard only the ctg marked guns are safe w/plus p.

 

[Duke426]

Never let facts and figures get in the way of myth and paranoia. The +p hysteria will never end...

 

[riverrat38]

I can't imagine a manufacture of guns designing them to blow up with a 15% pressure overload! Engineers almost always design for a 100% safety factor.

Rawhyde,
Those welding gloves are important. Otherwise, the checkering on the grips could rip the hide clean off your hand!

rat