+P 38 Special Nonsense Regarding Model 10

[Vom Brunhaus K9]

Have a 10 2 inch bought in 1971 have always shot +P thru it.

 

[Jaymo]

My new-to-me 10-6 and 15-3 are going to be fed lots of +P.
If a K frame is strong enough for .357, it's overkill for .38+P.
Buffalo Bore is my preferred ammo.
Their .38+P Outdoorsman load may just have the 15-3 replacing my GP100 .357 as my deer/hog hunting HG.

 

[riverrat38]

"Their .38+P Outdoorsman load may just have the 15-3 replacing my GP100 .357 as my deer/hog hunting HG."


Or, you can use the BB 180 gr Mag version in your GP100.
Those deer/hogs will likely just surrender!

Best,
Rick

 

[Model 15-4ever]

And it gave me the idea to see if I could find a Speer #8 manual which I did. Supposedly in like new condition from Amazon for half the price of a current Speer manual. It will be interesting to look at 70s loads compared to my 90s books compared to my current books.

CW

It's all you need. From a time when men had hairy chests and clean-shaven faces.

 

[nbedford]

I don't know who the person talked to at Smith & Wesson but he or she should read their manual before making a statement like that.

Here is what S&W says about +P ammo in their 38 special according to there online manual.
“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures
associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect
the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety built into some
revolvers and could therefore be DANGEROUS. This ammunition
should not be used in Smith & Wesson medium (K frame) revolvers
manufactured prior to 1958. Such pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers
can be identified by the absence of a model number stamped inside the
yoke cut of the frame (i.e., the area of the frame exposed when the
cylinder is in the open position).

So, any revolver model 10 made after 1958 is safe to shoot +P ammo.

Now I am going to let you know the real story. S&W has been heat treating cylinders at least since 1930. Also, todays plus P ammo is what standard pressure was back before 1972. I am going to give you a link from a well known member on this forum. He has done a lot of research and is knowlegeable on this subject.
Shooting with Hobie

I was thinking that I had read that Smith & Wesson started heat treating cylinders right after WWI. I don't do hot loads in my little 32 Hand Ejectors anyway, but I treat the one I have made prior to WWI even more carefully... just factory type loads from the 1930's per Hatcher's Textbook.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

The USAF Model 15s that I saw, shot, and was issued were all in excellent condition.

 

[mpc]

"You'll shoot your eye out kid"

 

[steelslaver]

Can you use +P ammo in a Hi Power. Asking for a cat.

 

[hkcavalier]

What about a .45/70 Garrett 540gr hardcast out of my .410 Rossi single shot?

 

[Hair Trigger]

Going back to the original question, "Is it okay to shoot +P .38 Spl. in a heavy barrel M10", why would it matter whether it was the heavy barrel or the "pencil" barrel? The frame and cylinder are the same, and it's usually the cylinder that ruptures from a high-pressure load.

 

[rct269]

THEN AND NOW--------------

This from a March 1, 1934 letter from D. B. Wesson, then Vice President of S&W, to a customer who has ordered a pair of Outdoorsman----one .22 and one 38/44----for the hot rod .38 Special cartridge immediately preceding the 357 Magnum, and the +P from a time when there wasn't one (and the revolver which then and now was and can be re-chambered and safely used for .357 Magnum ammunition). In so many words, he says the steel as it comes from their suppliers is safe for use in any caliber weapon they make----with no strengthening whatsoever.

His exact words (in response to the customer's inquiry as to whether or not the cylinder of his .22 Outdoorsman will be heat treated): "The steel that is used in the cylinder of the K-22 is identical in formula with that used in the larger calibers, but it is not heat-treated after machining as the great thickness of the cylinder walls do not demand any further strengthening. As a matter of fact, even in out larger calibers the steel as it comes from the mill shows a tensile strength in the neighborhood of 80,000 lbs., which does not make the additional strength gained by treating a necessity, but we do very much prefer the greatly increased factor of safety that is obtained with the 130,000 lbs. elastic limit that the treating gives."

Bottom Line: It would seem +P is more about more money for the folks that make it than anything else.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Buford57]

I remember this zombie from its first life. Once familiar names since deceased or banned. The skeleton of the horse still being beaten. Time for popcorn!

 

[Peak53]

That won't stop someone from asking the same question again within a few days, though.

...or a few years

 

[Jeff Napoleoni]

Whew! I guess I'm lucky to be alive. Over the summer I loaded some 38 sp +P 158g Hornaday JHP with 3g IMR Red. I went to the range and shot them through my 19-3, 4" and shot the rest of it through a Tarus 605. Now should I tell you all about the .357 loads?

 

[Jaymo]

Still alive.
Not banned, yet.
Just don't get much time to come around. Perhaps I'll get back to perusing the forum regularly again.

 

[Rifleman200-10X]

If you're afraid to shoot +P ammo in any Model 10, of any vintage, I have a simple solution. Just send me all the offending ammo, and the revolver. I'll cheerfully empty all the ammo, and return the empties sized, tumbled, and ready to load, and the revolver cleaned, lubed, and ready to shoot. I'll even pay the return shipping cost.

 

[rockquarry]

Does it surprise anyone that this +P thread, like so many other regular threads that surface monthly for years, contains basically no new information and opinions are often the same by many of the same respondents?

 

[Hoosierville IRN]

I was a weapons instructor in the USAF for 20 years...1983-2003. Some of our M15s were well used, but they were not "filthy" range guns...our training guns were cleaned after every firing. Weapons qualification training in the USAF includes field stripping & cleaning, and they were ALWAYS cleaned by the students after firing and inspected by the instructor before going back into the armory, at least that was the case at every CATM shop I ever worked at. I also never saw any M15s worn out by shooting PGU ball ammo and I never saw a cracked forcing cone on any M15 I ever handled in the USAF. Doesn't mean it never happened, I just don't believe there was a widespread problem with the ammo causing accelerated wear in the guns. JMHO.

Spent 28 years in the USAF; the first 12 and the last seven in positions that required an annual handgun qualification. Gunblade is absolutely correct. Every S&W revolver (M15) I saw/used/carried was in really good shape and cleaned thoroughly after every session. I can't attest to the way the Air Police/Security Police/Security Forces (their names kept changing) kept their weapons, but those reserved for aircrew duty, and those on the CATM range, were in really good shape.

 

[Jim Watson]

The legend the AF put out in the 1980s when they started the move to 9mm was that 40% of the revolvers sent in for servicing were rejected as irreparable.

 

[rogerwnuss]

One day, I might gather up the courage to touch off a .38 Special +P. I think if I put on some really think welding gloves, I might be able to touch off one round in my Dan Wesson .357 SuperMag. If I ever work up the courage to try, and I actually survive...I'll post up a report!

Careful. You might get PTSD like that NYT reporter got from firing an AR.....