+P in an older Model 10

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multistage

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I have a 2” Model 10-9, looks like it was made in 1988. I’ve been carrying 158 grain Hornadys in it, standard pressure.

I called Smith and the guy said they did NOT recommend +P in any 38 Special manufactured prior to 1996. So, I’ve been carrying standard pressure ammo.

The above paragraph is why I posted this. Sounds iffy to me.

I’m no engineer, but I find it odd that aluminum framed Airweights can handle +P ammo but an all steel K frame cannot.

What do you all think?

Sorry if this has long been beaten to death.
 
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multistage said:
...
I called Smith and the guy said they did NOT recommend +P in any 38 Special manufactured prior to 1996. So, I’ve been carrying standard pressure ammo.
Click to expand...

LOL. The cut-off date must be a rolling figure from S&W... they add ten years, every 10 years.

In the late 1940s, S&W advertised that their Military & Police K frame revolvers would handle .38 Special "Hi Speed" and 38/44 HD rounds. The pressure on these was about 22,000-24,000 cup, which is about 20% higher than current +P pressure. These were guns made BEFORE the Model 10 was designated.

After .38 Special +P was established in the 1970s, S&W said any K-frame manufactured after 1958 was safe with .38 Special +P. Hmmm... I guess all those K frames made in the 1940s were actually unsafe with the even higher pressure loads S&W advertised them to be able to use.

Now they are saying 1996! What magic potion did they pull of their posterior to come up with that date? Will the real +P date please stand up! And was S&W lying then, or now?

Maybe S&W would just prefer you spend money on a new gun.

PS. Yes this topic has been beaten to death many times over. Newer shooters don't understand the history of .38 Special or the guns. Your 1988 Model 10, if in sound condition, will shoot +P for many many moons without issue.

PPS. Making popcorn for the subsequent replies....
 
multistage said:
I have a 2” Model 10-9, looks like it was made in 1988. I’ve been carrying 158 grain Hornadys in it, standard pressure.

I called Smith and the guy said they did NOT recommend +P in any 38 Special manufactured prior to 1996. So, I’ve been carrying standard pressure ammo.

The above paragraph is why I posted this. Sounds iffy to me.

I’m no engineer, but I find it odd that aluminum framed Airweights can handle +P ammo but an all steel K frame cannot.

What do you all think?

Sorry if this has long been beaten to death.
Click to expand...

When you spoke to the S&W Rep. you might have talked with someone who was NOT knowledgable. ANY S&W steel revolver with a dash number can easily handle +P ammo in moderate amounts. Even the hottest of them which is Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain SWCHP-GC will not harm your revolver unless you continue to shoot a plethora of them through it!

When you call a Company and speak to ONE person, you are only speaking with that one person and who knows how trained, savvy and knowledgable that one person is. Over the years I have spoken to many S&W employees who answer the phone and few of them know much about the product they sell! They are basically phone answerer's and not trained gunsmiths. Less than expert phone answerer's who work for many big Company's are no better informed than the one's at S&W - sadly enough!

Standard pressure 38 specials are anemic and not considered great SD rounds these days. The Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P GDHP, Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain SWCHP-GC, are some of the best ones. 158 grain +P Remington SWCHP (the old FBI load) is even viable, not the greatest, but still viable for SD and not all that hot!
 
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I shot IDPA when the required power factor for Stock Service Revolver (SSR) was 125, which translated to a 158-grain bullet at >800 fps. Like most, I loaded my ammo to a 130 power factor for a fudge factor, so it was ~835 fps, which is about what current Winchester and Remington +P 158-grain LSWC-HPs run. I put multiple thousand rounds each through a 67-1 and a 10-8 in practice and competition. Both guns are still tight, showing no ill effects from those rounds. My practice ammo is still loaded to that level because my K frame carry load is the Remington LSWC-HP.
 
Yes, the CS rep missed the official cutoff date for + P use in your model 10 by about 40 years. :)

The official policy is any "model stamped, steel K (or N) frame in either .38 Special or .357 Magnum" is + P approved. The poor rep may have been quoting the cut off year on J frames (Airweight or not). Yes, I know earlier J and K frames and alloy frame guns can use + P - done it myself with no ill effects.

And I've said this before - a random caller (not the OP) contacts the factory and asks if + P is safe in a gun they cannot see, let alone inspect. From a liability standpoint you can bet they're going to tell you the most conservative recommendation they can.
 
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The folks who answer the phone at S&W are, well... the people who answer the phone. Not gunsmiths, not gun experts. People who answer the phone, and answer questions with pre-written scripts. Scripts written, in some cases, by lawyers. I am sure if you ask if it's okay to fire .38 Special in a Model 28 they will recommend against it because it's marked .357.

+P .38 Special will not harm your gun in the least, regardless of their "recommendations".
 
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When I was a LEO we were issued 1980s era Model 64 revolvers. Yes...they're stainless steel instead of ordnance steel but are essentially the same gun.

We only used 125 grain JHP+P ammo in them and never experienced a problem. Admittedly police guns don't get shot a lot but using +P was never an issue. When at S&W Armorers School we were never cautioned about +P ammo.

It's a non-issue.
 
Unless it's truly ancient or a worn out rattle-trap +P ammo is no problem in any Model 10 or pre-model 10.

The difference between the anemic standard .38 Special ammo and +P is minimal to begin with. Unless it's a very early 1900's gun I personally wouldn't worry about it.
 
I scoff at these....

...extremely conservative policies that came about because of liability. I don't believe the thing about the modern pressure measuring equipment being the reason because few if any, 'strong, modern' guns every blew up with the hot loads they used to print in manuals, even the notorious Speer #8. I mean they are proof fired at about 1/3 more than the max. One loading of .38 special in my old 1970 Sierra book gave 7 grains of Unique as the maximum load for a 125 gr. JHP whereas newer publications cut off at 6 gr. max. Also, at the range people nearby would comment when I switched to +Ps. Now even I can barely tell any difference.
 
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multistage said:
I have a 2” Model 10-9, looks like it was made in 1988. I’ve been carrying 158 grain Hornadys in it, standard pressure.

I called Smith and the guy said they did NOT recommend +P in any 38 Special manufactured prior to 1996. So, I’ve been carrying standard pressure ammo.

What do you all think?
Click to expand...

I reload the 158 grain XTP for my .38 revolver. Very accurate.

JMHO, you are good to go.
 
My opinion is any S&W in proper condition made after WWII is fully safe with plus P. If you started shooting a box of plus P a week, the added pressure might, just might start getting the gun loose to the point of needing repair, in about a half a century. I also hold the opinion with the exception of a few rounds to confirm poa and poi and function once in a while if you carry plus p, there is no good reason to shoot plus P otherwise.
 
If the Internet had been around in the early 1900s the question that would have been endlessly asked would have been "Can I shoot smokeless powder ammunition in my .38 Special"!:mad:

Since at least 1935, when the first 2" barrel M&P revolvers were issued, the K-frame S&Ws have been approved to shoot the .38-44 designated ammunition that was loaded to ca. 25,000 PSI, without reservations! Guns manufactured since that date are at least as strong as those made in 1935!!!

This +P .38 Special question has been kicked around for so many years it should be relegated to the "Stupid Questions" sub-forum if there was one! The +P question was not an issue until after the early Internet and forums like this one existed. If so many would not continue to propagate this matter it still wouldn't be an issue!:mad::mad:

The principal reason to not shoot +P too much in any steel framed revolver is simply COST!
 
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