+P Through a Model 12: THE TEST...is done!!!!

[Osprey]

Another session tonight; 110 rounds, four different types of ammo. Go to The Log on page 1, second entry.

Those of you who use del.icio.us, please feel free to share my tag for this topic, M12-2+P.

Enjoy,

sprey...and his tore up shootin' wing.

 

[M29since14]

3) To shoot this many rounds, I had to sports tape the back strap, sports tape the web of my shooting hand and sports tape the trigger during the session. (If I ever find the guy who decided to put a serrated trigger on this gun, I’ll crack the frame on M12 during the beating this guy is going to get.)
4) Despite all the tape, I’ll still managed to get blisters and lose some skin in the following places, top of trigger finger, bottom of trigger finger, and the web of my shooting (right) hand.

Egad, man! You are shooting .38 Special +Ps aren't you?

Thanks for the update.

 

[Osprey]

Originally posted by M29since14:
Egad, man! You are shooting .38 Special +Ps aren't you?

LOL, they were "just" .38 +Ps, but at times, in that lightweight gun, one could easily mistake the scene as a bird shooting magnums.

... Osprey

 

[mkk41]

Good article on +P ammo from Handguns magazine.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/demystplusp_0306-7/

 

[Gary A]

It's too bad that article did not address two of the most common elements discussed on these web forums. 1)What is the current limit of +P in .38 Special? Is it 18,500 psi, 20,000 psi, or even 22,000 psi? The author noted standard and +P pressures of 45 acp but not .38 Special which is a large part of his article. 2)How does this "increased wear" and "moderate" increases in pressure bear on older-style alloy-framed .38 revolvers. He doesn't address this question at all except to say that "current" production snubbies are all rated for plus P. OK, so what is the cumulative effect of plus P on "non-current" production? It was a pretty good article but merely rehashes stuff that has been commonly discussed without specifically addressing issues that have not yet been resolved, such as the one which inspired this current test of a Model 12 with +P.

 

[Osprey]

More notes added today, 5 OCT 07. Sorry, no additional rounds fired. Go to The Log on page 1, second entry.


....

sprey

 

[TN RAT]

Can we get a better pic of the gun and carry rig?

I have a Model 64 and would like to see the holster.

Thanks.

 

[Osprey]

Originally posted by TN RAT:
Can we get a better pic of the gun and carry rig?

Here's the gun with new grips on it:

Here's the holster on the "busy side":

I believe you can read the Galco model number (SPD112B) and find more info on Galco's Website.

And here's a shot of the old boot grips with the pastel blue inserts to fill the proprietary frame gaps.

....

sprey

 

[TN RAT]

I love it. Thanks for the great pics.

 

[dogngun]

Originally posted by ERay:
I've shot lots of +P's through allow frame S&W's with no problems. I did however several years ago have a Colt Cobra frame distort to the point that it was impossible to load and close after only about 200 rounds of +P. Sent it back to Colt and asked for a new frame at my cost. Received the gun back with a letter advising the gun had been used with excessive pressure loads and would not be repaired and they advised that I throw it away.

Eray: I have seen several Colt Trooper full size .357's buckle their frames after use with .357 mag ammo. I have heard it is not uncommon. Colt no longer makes DA revolvers.

OSPREY: If you wish, I propose a test using a Model 19 and 125 Grain Magnum ammo to bury that myth as well. I'd gladly donate a few bucks to support that one.

Mark

 

[Osprey]

Good news!!!

After tonight's session, the round count for our test has climb to 346. We are one-third of the way through the test. Subject gun appears to be doing fine (the shooter is still getting beat up). Check out the details in The Log on page 1, second entry.

....

sprey

 

[Art Doc]

When you finish with the +Zeros... I mean +Ps... how about doing it again with some 38/44 loads?

 

[Osprey]

Originally posted by SaxonPig:
... how about doing it again with some 38/44 loads?

LOL, I might test 38/44's in an alloy N-frame, but these are so rare that the last one I saw change hands (many years ago) did so for $14.5K....and I'm fairly certain that S&W will not repair/replace anyone's cracked alloy N-frame.

....

sprey

PS - SP, I believe that this test will run a course that in the end will vindicate your position on the issue of shooting +P in an M12.

 

[Art Doc]

I'm serious. In 1955 Elmer Keith wrote of shooting 38/44s in an alloy Chiefs Special. He said that the recoil was pretty sharp (and for Keith to notice the recoil it must have been significant) but otherwise nothing happened.

 

[Gary A]

Nothing shakin' on this thread for a couple of weeks now. Any more data to report? How's the test coming?

 

[Osprey]

Thanks for checking.

Nothing new to report other then I acquired some additional +P ammo to run through the gun, LAWMAN 158gr FMJ. Big gunshow this weekend in Chantilly that I'll shop for more ammo. Unfortunately, apart from an IDPA match tomorrow (I'll be using a Beretta), I won't be able to get back to the range until after Thanksgiving.

Holiday Jam, ya'know....

...

sprey

 

[Gary A]

Thanks for the update, Osprey. Figured as much that the upcoming season might have factored in.

 

[BobK]

Osprey, Explain to me again.......why are you doing this????

Must have alot of 'dead time' on his hands, or alot of extra +P ammo !!!!!

Bob

 

[Osprey]

Originally posted by BobK:
Osprey, Explain to me again.......why are you doing this????

Because someone "should have" and I could afford to do it. I had a gun I was willing to risk and I have the money, if not necessarily the TIME I would like to have. In the end, I hope this test is perceived as one of the "great things" about the Smith & Wesson Forum and its community of members.

Individually we're all pretty good, but collectively, WE ROCK!!!!

....

sprey

 

[sabre]

I, for one, think this is a very interesting execise. A well documented test to validate or debunk the concern about +P's in the M12 series guns by a "regular guy".

Based on my own limited M12 experience, I bet it survives just fine, although I've been hesitant to advise +P usage in these guns.

Keep us informed, and thanks for doing thins test and sharing it with us!

Bill