"Pancho Villa"!

[Wyatt Burp]

I'm about 250 pages into this 834 page book about the first foreigner to commit a terrorist act on American soil. It's a really good book, but, man. you cannot let your mind drift at all reading it 'cause it's so packed with details. 1st 200 pages is just the revolution itself. It's sometimes idealistic guys wanting change but then have to make deals with the very people they are fighting while getting backstabbed by their supposed friends (sounds familiar). Villa steals other people's property to give to others to motivate them to join him (that sounds familiar, too). It is very impartial and almost has too much info. But if you're interested in the Mexican revolution...and Villa, this is the book. But it ain't a leisurely read. While not boring, I've stopped twice and read other books then came back after my brain rested.

 

[Marshwheeling]

My grasp of Mexican history is tenuous at best, but I did learn a bit about Villa in a visit to his official residence in Cd. Chihuahua, which is now a museum. Lots of firearms, historical exhibits in English as well as Spanish, and the Dodge he was riding in when he was assassinated in Parral. Bullet holes are still there, real holes, not decals.

 

[mtgianni]

Interesting individual for sure whether you take the US side of terrorist invader or the Mexican one that he was promised help from President Wilson who then did nothing and changed his support to Carranza's. US Army then invaded Mexico with out Congressional action?.
Different times and borders, but he was an effective General as I have seen in my limited reading. I added the book to my read list.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

Interesting individual for sure whether you take the US side of terrorist invader or the Mexican one that he was promised help from President Wilson who then did nothing and changed his support to Carranza's. US Army then invaded Mexico with out Congressional action?.
Different times and borders, but he was an effective General as I have seen in my limited reading. I added the book to my read list.

So far Wilson is tolerating Villa since he's making a point of protecting American interests to avoid U.S. military intervention. Wilson isn't even really enforcing the U.S. arms embargo into Mexico, letting Villa get arms (fast & furious in reverse?) over the border. Villa definetly had political and military instincts, but at this point it seems he's not totally confident politically. And who would be? What a tangled mess of competing interests going on. But I tread on.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

He raided a town, Columbus, NM and killed civilians.
Until that happened, Villa's and other revolutionary activities in Mexico were Mexican business.
After the raid, it was our business.

 

[LEO918]

That's a real good book. I slogged my way through it and refer to it often.

 

[Eltioloco]

Thanks for the recommendation. Looks like an interesting read.
Poncho Villa must have been a heck of a gun enthusiast. Every old SAA pistol I have looked at here in Calexico was owned by Poncho Villa. He must of had a bunch!
My wife's grandfather met Villa a couple of times. He said he didn't know if he should shake his hand or shoot him. I would have recommended the latter.
Ken

 

[DWalt]

Yes, Pancho had a special burro which did nothing but carry around all of Pancho's guns for him.

Some years ago on TCM there was shown a series of movies made in Mexico about the life of Pancho Villa, in Spanish with English subtitles. I think they were made in the 1950s, but I would have to check to see. I recorded them and still have them.

 

[DWalt]

The series of three Mexican movies about Pancho Villa I alluded to in #8 above are:

Así era Pancho Villa (1957)
Pancho Villa y la Valentina (1960)
Cuando! Viva Villa...¡Es La Muerte (1960)

BTW, Villa's bodyguards carried Remington Model 8 semiautomatic rifles.

 

[soFlaNative]

I had loonch with Pancho Villa!

Had to give this a like, if only for the expended effort.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

You are all invited to visit the Pancho Villa State Park.
It in Columbus, NM at the site of the Camp Furlong Army base.
Pretty good Museum, it's about 3 miles to Palomas, Mexico.
In the old corp in the days of Yore, I would recommend eating lunch at the Pink Store in Palomas. Probably not a good idea now!

Pancho Villa State Park

 

[saemetric]

You are all invited to visit the Pancho Villa State Park.
It in Columbus, NM at the site of the Camp Furlong Army base.
Pretty good Museum, it's about 3 miles to Palomas, Mexico.
In the old corp in the days of Yore, I would recommend eating lunch at the Pink Store in Palomas. Probably not a good idea now!

Pancho Villa State Park

I live in Columbus. Pink Store is still good, but make sure you have proper ID or Passport to get back to the US.

 

[italiansport]

If you ever get to Douglas Arizona a visit to the historic Gadsden hotel is a must. The lobby has a magnificent marble stairway with chips in it and here's the story on how those chips occurred!
Jim
The 160-room Gadsden Hotel, which is listed in the National Register of Historic Places, opened in 1907, but was badly damaged by a fire, and reopened in 1929. Since then, little has changed.

The lobby retains the original white marble steps leading to the large mezzanine, up which Mexican bandit-turned-revolutionary Pancho Villa once reportedly rode his horse.

Visitors ride one of the oldest manual elevators west of the Mississippi to their rooms, many fitted out with original furnishings, aging drapes and pictures that recall the hotel's bustling heyday.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Before he decided to raid Columbus, Pancho was a welcome visitor in El Paso and Douglas.
There's a limit to our hospitality and killing folks is clearly over the line!

 

[Abbynormal]

Been to the Gadsden Hotel numerous times, lots of history and the bar has
hundreds of cattle brands on the bar and wall dating back over a hundred years. The bar of the Copper Queen in Bisbee has George Patton's initials along with hundreds of others!

 

[31FordA]

My Grandpop almost went to Mexico to chase Pancho Villa. When the Punitive Expedition was sent to Mexico in 1916 to chase Villa they took along a number of trucks. Since the Army was short of drivers, and especially mechanics, the Army hired a number of civilians to operate the trucks. My grandfather, having worked as a truck driver and mechanic, was all set to sign on. The pay was good, and it sounded like fun. His mother thought it was one of his dumber ideas and told him he was staying in Philadelphia. Apparently my great-grandmother was not someone you argued with, so Grandpop didn't go chase Villa. You could still hear the disappointment when he told the story 75 years later.

 

[LSWC]

When Black Jack, George and the Army went looking for Pancho, they had special quarters set up for him after his anticipated capture. It was (and still is) a nice strap iron jail cell. Should you find yourself in Candelaria, TX, you can see it still waiting after all these years.

 

[eb07]

My grandfather was a cavalry soldier during the expedition. I have his spurs and some photos.

 

[Cyrano]

A good book about the Columbus raid and its sequel is "Chasing Villa' by Col. Frank Tompkins. He was at Columbus during the raid and also participated in the punitive expedition. I think the 13th Cavalry at Columbus was armed with M1909 revolvers during the raid but carried M1911s during the punitive expedition.

 

[DWalt]

I have a second home at Fort Clark, Texas, which since the Civil War had been a horse cavalry post until it was closed after WWII. There were several troops of cavalry from there sent to join Pershing in the punitive action, but they got lost along the way and never saw any action.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

The series of three Mexican movies about Pancho Villa I alluded to in #8 above are:

Así era Pancho Villa (1957)
Pancho Villa y la Valentina (1960)
Cuando! Viva Villa...¡Es La Muerte (1960)

BTW, Villa's bodyguards carried Remington Model 8 semiautomatic rifles.

Is this one of them?



[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLBLixEfB2E[/ame]

 

[Wyatt Burp]

I just looked at a couple minutes of what looks like a pretty good documentary on the Columbus raid. Can't understand it, though.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCey3D9_l1c[/ame]

 

[eb07]

Some of grandads photos. He is buried in the vet cemetery in Tucson

In WW1 France ( last time horse cavalry was mobilized), some misc photos from the border including the Columbus parade. And his spurs with a photo of him wearing the spurs. Last of the horse cavalry soldiers.

Older brother has the sword now. I got the spurs and his medals. Those spurs chased Pancho for a bit then chased Germans. ( in reality they brought their horses to France but ended up doing farrier and stable work and never saw saddled combat because the horses were re purposed for transport duty.)












Just thought I'd share.... and I am going to go buy that book

 

[Eltioloco]

We can't talk about Poncho Villa crossing borders without a bit of Tom Russell.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwh-h6pHN1Y[/ame]

 

[LostintheOzone]

You are all invited to visit the Pancho Villa State Park.
It in Columbus, NM at the site of the Camp Furlong Army base.
Pretty good Museum, it's about 3 miles to Palomas, Mexico.
In the old corp in the days of Yore, I would recommend eating lunch at the Pink Store in Palomas. Probably not a good idea now!

Pancho Villa State Park

This is also a good read.

Nonfiction Book Review: The General and the Jaguar: Pershing's Hunt for Pancho Villa: A True Story of Revolution and Revenge by Eileen Welsome, Author . Little, Brown $25.95 (403p) ISBN 978-0-316-71599-7

My wife and I spent a few weeks at that state park 2 years ago. The park museum is pretty good along with the train depot museum which is one of the few remaining buildings from the 1916 raid.

When I was in high school (65) I took a summer job salvaging the copper wire along the abandoned Southern Pacific railroad from Columbus to Rodeo. We spent several nights camped out in the old depot building in Columbus. At that time it was abandoned and was being vandalized. Sometime in the 70's the historical significance of the building was realized and a historical society took control and started renovating it. Gen. Pershing's troops were unloaded from a train at that depot and the Punitive Expedition began. It was the first US military action to use aircraft and motorized vehicles.

Our lunch at the Pink Store in Palomas was pretty good.

 

[Ogandydancer]

My Grandpop almost went to Mexico to chase Pancho Villa. When the Punitive Expedition was sent to Mexico in 1916 to chase Villa they took along a number of trucks. Since the Army was short of drivers, and especially mechanics, the Army hired a number of civilians to operate the trucks. My grandfather, having worked as a truck driver and mechanic, was all set to sign on. The pay was good, and it sounded like fun. His mother thought it was one of his dumber ideas and told him he was staying in Philadelphia. Apparently my great-grandmother was not someone you argued with, so Grandpop didn't go chase Villa. You could still hear the disappointment when he told the story 75 years later.

My Grandfather was in the Army and he told that his outfit was all boarded on the train and ready for departure when Pancho was killed so their mission was scrubbed.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

Some of grandads photos. He is buried in the vet cemetery in Tucson

In WW1 France ( last time horse cavalry was mobilized), some misc photos from the border including the Columbus parade. And his spurs with a photo of him wearing the spurs. Last of the horse cavalry soldiers.

Older brother has the sword now. I got the spurs and his medals. Those spurs chased Pancho for a bit then chased Germans. ( in reality they brought their horses to France but ended up doing farrier and stable work and never saw saddled combat because the horses were re purposed for transport duty.)












Just thought I'd share.... and I am going to go buy that book

Those are fantastic pictures. He's got his 1911 holster tied down ready for some hard ridin'. Great that you can actually hold those old spurs in your hand and not even have to wonder where they've been. The pictures show it all.

 

[DWalt]

"My Grandfather was in the Army and he told that his outfit was all boarded on the train and ready for departure when Pancho was killed so their mission was scrubbed. "

Pancho was never even scratched by a US bullet during the Punitive Expedition. He was assassinated by his own countrymen (the reasons are obscure) long afterward in Parral in 1923.

 

[eb07]

Those are fantastic pictures. He's got his 1911 holster tied down ready for some hard ridin'. Great that you can actually hold those old spurs in your hand and not even have to wonder where they've been. The pictures show it all.

I still have his 1911 tool as well. The 1911 whereabouts are unknown.

 

[DWalt]

My favorite movie concerning Pancho is 1955's "Treasure of Pancho Villa" with Rory Calhoun. Pancho is never seen, only mentioned, but there is a lot of great Lewis Gun action. In fact the Lewis Gun (named "la Cucharacha") could be considered as the star of the movie. It shows up occasionally on TCM.