Patton A Genius For War
- Thread starter Ghost Magnum
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
If Eisenhower would have had anybody assassinated, it would have been Montgomery.
A book recommendation occurred to me. Terry Brighton's triple biography of the three generals who attained fame as allies, rivals, and enemies, and still can spark discussions today, gives pretty good insights into their strengths and weaknesses, but also the things they had in common. Worth checking out.
Attachments
While I have always admired Gen. Patton's strong leadership, my stepmother's father was a 3rd Army Chaplain and he detested Patton.
I know he was indeed a 3rd Army Chaplain as he showed me the Bronze Star citation he received during the Battle of the Bulge (when I returned home from the Army).
We all know Gen. Patton was a complicated man. I do believe (as BigBoy99 said) he'd never make it in today's Army. He probably wouldn't have made it in his Army if WW2 hadn't come along.
I know he was indeed a 3rd Army Chaplain as he showed me the Bronze Star citation he received during the Battle of the Bulge (when I returned home from the Army).
We all know Gen. Patton was a complicated man. I do believe (as BigBoy99 said) he'd never make it in today's Army. He probably wouldn't have made it in his Army if WW2 hadn't come along.
He might have been a "complicated" man. But his career even before WWII was quite alright.
I just noticed that I am now 3 years older than he was when he died.
Patton was actually a very religious man. Prior to D-day, in England, a woman who was touring his quarters saw a bible on a table next to his bed. She asked Patton if he actually read the bible.
His reply: "Every ********** day."
John
His reply: "Every ********** day."
John
OP
Ghost Magnum
Member
I would love for a new Patton movie that gives us the real complicated Patton. I loved the 1970 Patton movie. But that's not the real Patton. In some ways. It glorified Bradley.
Note that everyone is familiar w/ Patton... Eisenhower because he became President (& advisor to Kennedy although of opposing parties), MacArthur because of clever words when he got kicked out of SE Asia, Bradley is all but forgotten (for good reason), Montgomery only because he had royal connections, McAuliffe because his tenacity in Adrienne Forest, Rommel for his strategy in Africa (before Patton spanked him) & a few dozen other unknown generals... but Patton is well-known everywhere.
Some gents here seem willing and
ripe for conspiracy theories.
Exactly how did an accident that
didn't kill Patton outright be
manufactured into a diabolical
way of finishing him off while doctors
and nurses attended him?
Awful lot of conspirators--the doctors
and everyone else around him. Hopefully
to keep the secret all those were
murdered to save the higher-ups
involved in getting rid of Patton.
I'm convinced.
Like the idea that Kennedy's autopsy was faked by conspirators.
Jackie decided where the body would go, and she didn't decide until they were in the air. The Conspiracy would have had to place teams of conspirators in every hospital, military base, and ME office in the DC area.
Or the idea that the Clintons have killed 47 people who were inconvenient. The ground in Arkansas and around DC is littered with shallow graves. But how about the bevy of women that antagonized Bill? To this day they're still breathing.
But this stuff sells tinfoil.
My next door neighbor when I was a boy was Moe, a WWII veteran of the battle of the bulge and the Hurtgen forest. He took this picture of Patton and a few other notables when they came to visit his area. The camera he used was quite tiny and took tiny pictures. His widow, who is still living in the same house, let me photograph the picture.
John
John
My next door neighbor when I was a boy was Moe, a WWII veteran of the battle of the bulge and the Hurtgen forest. He took this picture of Patton and a few other notables when they came to visit his area. The camera he used was quite tiny and took tiny pictures. His widow, who is still living in the same house, let me photograph the picture.
John
Ah! For someone who was so hard on a soldier's appearence. The General's pants are improperly bloused.
UncleEd
Member
Ah! For someone who was so hard on a soldier's appearence. The General's pants are improperly bloused.
Perhaps he had just come from
putting down some Germans.
Yes, he was a bit of stickler for
neatness in his troops. But one
battle he lost was against Bill
Mauldin, Willie and Joe.
REM 3200
US Veteran
Ah! For someone who was so hard on a soldier's appearence. The General's pants are improperly bloused.
No they're not.
Also... You do realize that there is no prescribed uniform for a General Officer.
Perhaps he had just come from
putting down some Germans.
Yes, he was a bit of stickler for
neatness in his troops. But one
battle he lost was against Bill
Mauldin, Willie and Joe.
Them "dogfaces" were really hard to beat.
1. Well they don't look very "tidy" to me.
2. Yeah!
3. I suffered the "bloused pants problem" of those with a narrow waist and
long legs. Everything's fine until you bend your knees.
Funny, as a Military Policeman ('73-'76) I broke starch every day, which looks good until the first time you sit down. It wasn't such a big deal in the ROK (as things were much more informal than in CONUS) but at Bragg we rode to guard mount (at the PMO) standing up in one of the "wagons" (modified Chevrolet Step Vans).
Freelancer99
Member
I always thought that Patton had the best uniforms of all the Allied General Officers. Not too over the top, but distinctly his. It would be fun to rate the best and worst of the Allies (including the Germans would be unfair, I think they'd get the top five spots).
I'd nominate Monte for #1 of the worst, It's probably not true but he deserves it.
BTW this is my first post - you all have a great forum here!
I agree that the Germans were snappy dressers (except Göering).
Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy it.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Welllll .... that shiny helmet he insisted on wearing tended to make him look like an old-fashioned fireman who'd crashed a generals' meeting, though ....
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I worked with a gentleman who landed in Italy with Patton's army. Bill was a corporal when they landed and was a Captain by the time they got to Rome...quite a lot of attrition for that to happen. Bill told me that he had the opportunity to become Patton's aide, but turned it down...told me he didn't want to be polishing boots ...then said that the guy who took the job left Italy as a colonel... Bill said that maybe he should have considered the offer more carefully.
Robert
Robert
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UncleEd
Member
One aspect of considering a born-rich
person such as Patton compared to
citizen soldiers such as Bill Mauldin's
Willie and Joe is Patton probably never
polished his own boots, pressed his
own uniforms or slept on the ground
during a rain storm.
Nor did he go from say 175 pounds
to 135 pounds while in literally constant
combat, sometimes suffering from
wounds but still kept on the line.
He liked the idea of "glory" in war where
the GIs never saw any glory in war,
just misery and death while keeping
a glimmer of hope that things might
get better.
person such as Patton compared to
citizen soldiers such as Bill Mauldin's
Willie and Joe is Patton probably never
polished his own boots, pressed his
own uniforms or slept on the ground
during a rain storm.
Nor did he go from say 175 pounds
to 135 pounds while in literally constant
combat, sometimes suffering from
wounds but still kept on the line.
He liked the idea of "glory" in war where
the GIs never saw any glory in war,
just misery and death while keeping
a glimmer of hope that things might
get better.
That one rings a bell for me. When I was in the AZ National Guard as an officer in the 158th Infantry "Bushmasters" Regiment, I was selected as a candidate for aide-de-camp to the State commander - a general officer, of course.
When I was commanded to interview with him, I told him flatly I didn't want the job. When he asked me why, I told him I'd rather be instructing troops on how to shoot straight and maneuver effectively rather than occupying a desk in his HQ. I figured I'd be much more useful to the Guard in that role.
Miracle of miracles, he selected someone else. I guess he didn't want a reluctant dragon...
John
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
It's an interesting historical thing:
In many armies through the 19th century in Europe where officer positions were reserved for the aristocracy, officers who were promoted up from the ranks, who got battlefield commissions, were uncommon, but it did happen. They had been through what you describe, what the men at the front went through.
And yet, they generally had a harder time being accepted by the men than some privileged aristocrat because they weren't seen as "proper officers". They violated the natural order of things.
Leadership is a strange thing. Frederick the Great was beloved by his men because he gave them victories, but also because he lived simply with the army. But the point was that as the king he didn't have to. Soldiers have never wanted to be led by somebody like themselves.
Now Patton was a strange bird because he appears to have actually bought into his own myth, including the battles he claimed to have fought in previous incarnations during the Roman Empire and the Middle Ages. So he definitely had some screws loose.
But a lot of his persona, the fancy guns, the talk of glory, did serve a practical purpose of leadership. Combined with his undeniable abilities on the battlefield, this did indeed inspire the guys bearing the hardships at the sharp end.
When I lived in the big burb outside of Albany, my next door neighbor (now 15 years deceased) got his feet wet doing Normandy.
Went on to the very end of the war, came out a E6 and spoke very highly of Patton. The funny thing my neighbor did not have much love for officers to begin with, so to me that speaks volumes.
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UncleEd
Member
As with Patton, I too was in many
wars through a dozen centuries.
So, in my honor:
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Every battle I bled,
or runs with the flu.
wars through a dozen centuries.
So, in my honor:
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Every battle I bled,
or runs with the flu.
