Pawn Shop M&P or Model 10?

[Fredo Batali]

I was at a local pawn shop this afternoon and was looking at a .38 M&P or a Model 10, not sure which. It's a four-inch barrel with typical five screws. The front sight is a ramped Model 10 sight. Serial number is C134XXX. Serial numbers match in all the usual places and there is a star on the barrel flat between the "C" and the serial number. We removed the stocks (Hogue's) and found no date on either side of the frame denoting a trip back to the factory. It will qualify easily for the "ugliest gun" as there is very little to no finish left on it. It's been a "working gun" for sure. It has the number 60 hand stamped on the frame under the cylinder opening. Also has the number 137 scratched on the yoke. Broker said it's a former police gun. I can get it for $300.00 plus the states cut. Carry up is spot on but lock up is a bit loose. Any guess as to what it is? M&P or Model 10? Thanks in advance.

De Oppresso Liber

 

[bruner1981]

The serial number C134XXX dates it to 1948-1951, making it a 38 M&P. If it's at a pawn shop, I'd say show them $250 cash and start there. Good luck!

 

[Pondoro]

Yes, learn to argue price. I've gotten 20% off several times just by asking.

 

[Absalom]

I think the serial number puts it around 1951. $300 is definitely too much for the condition you describe, especially minus the original stocks; these revolvers are not hard to find in decent condition.

For comparison, I paid $317 for the one pictured below (1947) last year.

 

[Alk8944]

The "C" SN prefix, with no other information establishes the gun as being a Military & Police. No other model of S&W was ever assigned the "C" prefix.** You have a basic misunderstanding about S&W nomenclature. Doesn't make a bit of difference what "Named Model" a gun is, when model numbers were designated in 1957 these were in addition to the model name. From 1899 to today a 6-shot, .38 Special, K-frame, fixed sight, revolver is and always has been a Military and Police revolver. Those made after 1957, and that have (or should have!) a model number stamped in the yoke cut, can be referred to as "Model 10s", but they are still M&Ps! It is not an either/or situation.

** Yes, there are several numbered models that had the "C" prefix, Models 10, 11, 12 all fell in this range, as well as the later"D", but all are referred to as M&Ps commonly.

 

[DWalt]

That SN would be from late 1950-early 1951, and could be described as a pre-Model 10 M&P. For a beater in good mechanical condition and without original grips, $200-$250 is a more likely value if you are looking for a truck gun.

 

[fuzzyrc1]

I recently bought an M & P at local gun shop. The crane and lock-up are tight as a tick, SA and DA are like butter, finish is 98% and appears to be original, numbers on butt, cylinder, and barrel flat match, and rifling is as new. Grips had been horribly re-finished and did not appear to be original to the gun so I traded out for a Hogue one-piece rubber grip. It is really a beautiful piece and shoots as good. Tag price was $475. I parted with $275 cash.

I would really appreciate some help with the year of manufacture and the meaning of the "S" prefix. Serial number is S820xxx. Thank you.

 

[DWalt]

The S prefix indicates the improved hammer block safety, adopted in early 1945 for the Victory model revolvers. It likely shipped in mid-1946, among the first of the post-WWII M&Ps.

 

[vytoland]

I recently bought an M & P at local gun shop. The crane and lock-up are tight as a tick, SA and DA are like butter, finish is 98% and appears to be original, numbers on butt, cylinder, and barrel flat match, and rifling is as new. Grips had been horribly re-finished and did not appear to be original to the gun so I traded out for a Hogue one-piece rubber grip. It is really a beautiful piece and shoots as good. Tag price was $475. I parted with $275 cash.

I would really appreciate some help with the year of manufacture and the meaning of the "S" prefix. Serial number is S820xxx. Thank you.

at $275 you did very well and bought a post war M&P pre model 10............Serial number is S820xxx = 1945.....

the "S" prefix serial numbers began after WWII.....

 

[DWalt]

Serial number is S820xxx = 1945
At least for shipping, not likely. The first M&P revolvers shipped by S&W in the postwar period were civilian-finished revolvers in the SV series, made up of military parts remaining in factory inventory, and all those went out the door during the first few months of 1946. The S-series revolvers MAY have been in manufacture in late 1945, but nearby S-series SNs on my list all appear to have been shipped in June and July 1946.

 

[vytoland]

The front sight is a ramped Model 10 sight. Serial number is C134XXX. there is very little to no finish left on it. I can get it for $300.00 plus the states cut. Carry up is spot on but lock up is a bit loose.
De Oppresso Liber

Serial number C134XXX = 1950
front sight is a ramped Model 10 sight = after 1952
lock up is a bit loose.

too many red flags on this one....walk away...you can do better.....

 

[vytoland]

Serial number is S820xxx = 1945
At least for shipping, not likely. The first revolvers shipped in the postwar period were civilian-finished revolvers in the SV series, made up of military parts in factory inventory, and all those went out the door during the first few months of 1946. The S-series revolvers MAY have been in manufacture in late 1945, but nearby S-series SNs on my list all appear to have been shipped in June and July 1946.

shipping, I agree with 1946, but the OP was interested in manufacture date and this one could have been in 1945.....

 

[fuzzyrc1]

Thank you all for the quick responses. It would appear I have a jewel. No show queens in my safe, though. I'm gonna shoot it.

Any idea what style of grips would have been originally fitted? I like the monogrip for shooting but might want to pick up something for the sake of originality.

 

[Absalom]

Any idea what style of grips would have been originally fitted? I like the monogrip for shooting but might want to pick up something for the sake of originality.

Look at the picture I posted above. That is an S-prefix gun, but the early C-prefix 1950s guns had the same style.

 

[DWalt]

It would have had what are known as sharp shoulder Magnas. They show up on eBay fairly frequently.

 

[JP@AK]

DWalt wrote:

Serial number is S820xxx = 1945
At least for shipping, not likely . . .
S-series revolvers MAY have been in manufacture in late 1945, but nearby S-series SNs on my list all appear to have been shipped in June and July 1946

vytoland wrote:

shipping, I agree with 1946, but the OP was interested in manufacture date and this one could have been in 1945

I'm in agreement with both these guys, BUT keep in mind that military shipments of SV revolvers lasted until August, 1945. The war ended that month. There were quite a bunch of SV marked frames hanging around at that point and they were later assembled for civilian shipments. The first gun without the V as part of the prefix was S811120 and it was assembled on September 12, 1945. Quite a few more SV guns had higher serial numbers than that one and the S and SV guns were built up concurrently for some time. The highest SV number I have been able to locate carried serial number SV813132, and it went out the door on April 4, 1946. There are lots of S guns with numbers lower than that one. Also, shipments seem to have virtually stopped between August, '45 and March '46.
One noteworthy point is that most of the guns shipped in the spring of '46 that I've been able to identify had the commercial blue finish, regardless of whether it has an SV or S serial number. I suspect that the hiatus in shipping had to do with a transition from wartime guns (with the matt finish) to the early commercial guns, many of which had the lanyard swivel hole plugged.
So, yes. At least some of the early S prefix Military & Police revolvers had frames that were forged in 1945. But I doubt we will ever know how many. All we can know was when they shipped, and there is lots of evidence that they did not start shipping until March of 1946. (The big exception was a shipment to the Cleveland PD, which went out in February. Most of these guns carried S815xxx serial numbers.)

Incidentally, the S820xxx guns seem to have been orphans. There is evidence that many, if not most, of them left the factory in late spring or early summer (June & July). But I show several guns in the S823xxx and S824xxx range that shipped sooner - April and May of 1946. I don't show a single S820xxx that shipped before June. Odd.

 

[BibleronKJV]

Jack, Do you have any shipping data for the Cleveland PD M&P in the S815xxx range. I have S815873. Thanks, Ron

 

[JP@AK]

Ron
Yours is the only one in my spreadsheet for which I do not have a confirmed ship date. All the others went out in February, 1946, as mentioned above.

 

[BibleronKJV]

Thanks, Jack. I have two other M&P's with Cleveland PD markings....S915930 and C458786. Any info on these? I was able to find out who was originally issued S915930...Forrest Parkey who carried it from 7/30/47 to 6/23/65. Regards, Ron

 

[JP@AK]

with Cleveland PD markings....S915930 . . . Any info?

Just that I show two others with very close-by serial numbers and they shipped in July, 1947. I'd bet this one was issued as soon as it was received from the factory.

Can't help on the C prefix revolver.