Pebble Copper Mine in Alaska

[e-jism]

Environmentalists are pressuring the EPA to refuse permits to work the Pebble copper mine in Alaska that could yield 80 billion pounds of copper. Article (and radio interview) says that the permit process takes 7+ years, but if Pebble allowed to proceed it could reduce copper imports from current 35% to almost zero. Could affect future ammo prices and other products made with copper.

 

[SMSgt]

Environmentalists object to everything. Nothing new there. They raised hell over the pipeline, swearing it would disrupt caribou migrations. I'm here to tell you the dumb caribou (and they are dumb) completely ignore it.

 

[Culina]

Yup, the environmentalists pushed a lot of our industry to China, guess what they burn over their to fuel their power plants.

Oh, lets make sure everyone has solar panels, but the solar panels mostly come from China, guess what they burned to grow the silicone crystals,

COAL! and I don't think they care if its dirty or not.

 

[Sven]

Three different outfits are trying to get permits to mine copper/nickle deposits here in northern Minnesota, too, and are being fought by environmental extreemists. Ely is an old mining town. As a matter of fact, the richest -- that is, most pure iron deposits in the world are just down the road in the Sudan mine. Now, Ely is the stepping off place for entry into the Boundry Waters -- the most over-used "wilderness" in the US and is overrun with folks who call themselves environmentalists. The only industry up there, now, is tourism. There's not even much logging any more. We'll see what happens. . .

 

[pownal55]

One thing for certain, every time environmentalist open their mouths expect to have to open your wallet. Too bad their ideas usually accomplish nothing in the end.

 

[aphelion]

Environmentalists object to everything. Nothing new there. They raised hell over the pipeline, swearing it would disrupt caribou migrations. I'm here to tell you the dumb caribou (and they are dumb) completely ignore it.

They hang around it in the winter because it is warm.

 

[Troystat]

And after the copper is gone the mines will have destroyed the Salmon runs, the Caribou migration paths etc, etc. and you will be left with a waste land and no recourse because the mines will be held by a holding company that will declare bankruptcy and default on all their responsibilities and debts not to mention any retirement money they owe to the miners. To make things worse the copper will be sold to the Chinese who will sell it back to use in things that should be made hear. That gold mine and the mine some clowns want build at the head waters where the copper river salmon spawn are the worst thing since the internal lock on S&W's

 

[Smithsrevenge]

Environmentalists also throw a fit when I have a bean supper. However I never let them get me down. I LOVE BEANS!

 

[AKRuss]

Like most mining operations, there are pros and cons. If the mine proves to be economic - it hasn't so far - there will be a boom in jobs and construction in an area where little economic opportunity exists. The down side is that there will be some level of pollution and it may be persistent. The "environmental" controversy is primarily to protect a sustainable and profitable fishing economy and not just hugging trees and breathing deeply. This dichotomy is generally handled by permitting and EPA oversight. Hopefully we can have our cake and eat it too. I don't understand how the govt. could withhold permits without creating a takings - a very expensive takings.

 

[Elwood_Blues]

The reason there is so much in the news about it is Bob Gillam, aka rich guy, has a fishing lodge in the area.

He funds practically every anti-Pebble movement out there. Even flagrant violations of election law fines are simply a cost of doing business this way.

We have to do something to diversify the economy here. When the pipeline closes down, and it will, the 1987 crash will look like a ripple when all that income and high paying jobs leave the state. There is nothing to replace the oil companies as an economic driver in the state. Tourism and the movie industry is not going to cut it.

Yeah, look at the Copper River. All those mines killed every fish in the river, never to return again.

 

[Andy Griffith]

Here's the deal...

We had one of the worst "environmental" areas in the US near where I live- Copperhill TN. The land was barren across the hills for miles around it when I was a kid, because of the smelting.

Now, it's impossible to tell the place was barren. Trout are in the creeks, trees are beginning to take root in the piles around them mines.

IF mining is done correctly, there will be little to no environmental impact. If it's done terribly, it will still come back, period.

That's why I'm in favor of instrumentalists becoming endangered species.

 

[joesmith357]

And after the copper is gone the mines will have destroyed the Salmon runs, the Caribou migration paths etc, etc. and you will be left with a waste land and no recourse because the mines will be held by a holding company that will declare bankruptcy and default on all their responsibilities and debts not to mention any retirement money they owe to the miners. To make things worse the copper will be sold to the Chinese who will sell it back to use in things that should be made hear. That gold mine and the mine some clowns want build at the head waters where the copper river salmon spawn are the worst thing since the internal lock on S&W's

I agree 100% with this person.

It's easy to just dismiss the environmentalists as wackos, but what a lot of you dont realize is they are correct about most of what they say / do.

Mining leaves nothing but environmental disaster after environmental disaster behind, and the way the companies are organized at the corporate level, it allows them to walk away with zero recourse. At that point, the former mine becomes either an ignored environmental disaster, or the rest of us pay (via taxes) to clean it up. Just drive through former coal towns in West Virginia, destroyed towns, polluted rivers, thousands apon thousands of square miles of disgusting strip mines or mountaintop removal projects left to rot. Out west, their equivalent is huge copper mines, some of which are so big they can be seen from space. Here in Florida we have the same thing, phosphate mines which when done, leave huge piles of radioactive, unusable of gypsum, polluted lakes and water table. Lots of short term profit, long term disasters.

A lot of people dont know it, but that Keystone pipeline if it gets built will be used 100% for EXPORT. It will not help the U.S. and our oil supply, but does allow the canadian oil company to transport it's oil much cheaper. Not sure why it's the job of the U.S. to help foreign companies make more money at our expense.

 

[WuzzFuzz]

Hmmmmm....New York City, Chicago, St. Louis, Dallas, L.A. San Diego, Phoenix....

There went the forests and deserts....Right?....Where was EPA then, or maybe things happened just fine without the EPA and environmentalists interfering.

If the EPA and environmentalists had their way today, we'd be living in tents. (Made in China of course..)

Just a thought.....


WuzzFuzz

 

[arjay]

I guess it depends on if we want the entire country to be an urban wasteland

 

[WuzzFuzz]

The point is, civilization marches on. Sometimes the so called one of a kind pigmy snail is going to have to go to the wayside.

Coal assisted with the industrial revolution..Yes there were coal pits.
Copper allowed for electrical wires...Yes there are some copper pits.
Steel needed the iron ore...Yes there are some iron ore pits
Nickle is needed for steel..Yes there are some nickle pits.
Wood is needed for building things...Yes forests and mountain sides must be cleared.

However many of those areas are being reclaimed. There is now vegetation is being grown on those areas again.

Yes we need oil to run our economy. And yes there have been some beuts of some oil spills. But newer technology has allowed for the extraction of the minerals for the continuation of civilization.

Is the only way to stop the consumption, is to limit human growth, so those things are not needed by so many?


WuzzFuzz

 

[LVSteve]

Mining properly and not trashing the local environment costs a little more money up front. It's the old story of an ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure. However, the need (greed?) of modern industry to maximise every last penny means that they don't want to sign up for that. They are given little incentive to do so because in the past somebody else picked up the tab for the expensive fix 40-50 years after they trashed the place, SO THEY THINK THIS IS NORMAL. Personally, I'm done with their view of normal. I've seen way too much industrial blight in our cities and countryside during my lifetime to think otherwise. Come on, people, I thought we learned from our mistakes. Oh, wait....

 

[Jst1mr]

I work in a town where there was a large copper- gold mine just a few years ago on the banks of a scenic river. It was fully reclaimed and is now a natural, park-like setting with no trace of the mine left behind. Just like most news reporting, only the disasters get air time.

 

[joesmith357]

I work in a town where there was a large copper- gold mine just a few years ago on the banks of a scenic river. It was fully reclaimed and is now a natural, park-like setting with no trace of the mine left behind. Just like most news reporting, only the disasters get air time.

I can assure you this is the rare exception.

Drive through Southern West Virginia, up US 52 and see what the other 98% of industry does when they are "done" with an area.

Mining properly and not trashing the local environment costs a little more money up front. It's the old story of an ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure. However, the need (greed?) of modern industry to maximise every last penny means that they don't want to sign up for that. They are given little incentive to do so because in the past somebody else picked up the tab for the expensive fix 40-50 years after they trashed the place, SO THEY THINK THIS IS NORMAL. Personally, I'm done with their view of normal. I've seen way too much industrial blight in our cities and countryside during my lifetime to think otherwise. Come on, people, I thought we learned from our mistakes. Oh, wait....

Exactly. Make a mess and let someone else clean it up while we light our cigars with $100 bills.

It wasnt that long ago that large sections of industrialized cities were environmental wastelands. Some of you are pretty old and should remember vividly the industrial rivers of the North literally catching on fire (Cuyahoga River). Chemical companies dumping their toxic waste everywhere (Love Canal). Where I live, the bays and rivers were so polluted by companies and sewer plants dumping their **** into bays and rivers, all the grass died, which caused fish to die, etc. Here 30-40 years later, it's just now getting back to where it's supposed to be.

See China and the industrial third world for the toxic wastelands that no regulation gives you. Is that what you want in America?

 

[joesmith357]

The point is, civilization marches on. Sometimes the so called one of a kind pigmy snail is going to have to go to the wayside.

Coal assisted with the industrial revolution..Yes there were coal pits.
Copper allowed for electrical wires...Yes there are some copper pits.
Steel needed the iron ore...Yes there are some iron ore pits
Nickle is needed for steel..Yes there are some nickle pits.
Wood is needed for building things...Yes forests and mountain sides must be cleared.

However many of those areas are being reclaimed. There is now vegetation is being grown on those areas again.

Yes we need oil to run our economy. And yes there have been some beuts of some oil spills. But newer technology has allowed for the extraction of the minerals for the continuation of civilization.

And in 1930 there was literally not a tree standing East of the Mississippi River due to clear cutting. After that, landslides due to no brush holding the soil.

The timber industry figured it out, after being forced to by government regulations I might add, that managed forests are just fine and fill our demands.

Other industries just buy their way out of problems (oil, mining, etc)

 

[sonora]

Whats wrong with saving some natural resourses for future generations? What will we leave them? Sonora