Perceived Benefits Of Gun Free Zones (Seriously)

[otisrush]

What do supporters of "Gun Free Zones" seriously think will be the enhanced outcome of having them? I'm truly trying to understand what they really think will be different. Do they want to reduce accidental discharges and injuries from them? Are they afraid some argument might happen to erupt between someone carrying a gun and someone else that could then escalate to the gun being pulled out and used since it's a tool that is close at hand? (Along the same lines of, if there happened to be a baseball bat right there, someone in the heat of the moment might pick it up.) Or do they really think that some crazy who has the specific intent of taking out a bunch of innocent people en masse will, in the heat of the anticipated destruction, see the sign on the door - and walk away? Or maybe they're just simply afraid of guns - like I'm afraid of mice at an extremely emotional level - and I just don't want to be around them. Thinking they might be in the garage gives me the willies.

To keep this focused let's assume we're talking businesses - grocery stores, coffee shops, etc.

I'm not looking for speculation on answering these questions. I'm wondering if anyone here has ever had conversations with folks who support these policies to understand exactly they think will be improved as a result of having them.

OR

 

[ralph7]

Supporters of gun free zones are usually gun haters that would be happy to have all privately owned guns confiscated.
Trying to make sense of their rationale for these zones is futile.

 

[federali]

It doesn't make any sense

Gun free zones are a product of an anti-gun mentality. But, if I may play the devil's advocate for a moment, we witnessed a recent case where a toddler accidentally shot and killed his mother while shopping, a CCW was shot and killed in a Walmart robbery and one LEO killed another LEO when both responded to a robbery in progress at a drug store on Long Island, NY.

I'm personally opposed to gun free zones because they create victim-rich environments and society may pay a deadly price just as soon as home-grown terrorists get lucky. I'm preaching to the choir here. As the saying goes, the various LE agencies must be lucky all the time while their adversaries need only be lucky once.

Following the LIRR mass shooting by Colin Ferguson and which propelled Caroline McCarthy into Congress, She remained steadfast against citizens being armed despite her husband's senseless murder and her son's serious wounding.

 

[SC_Mike]

If a person has no re-guard for laws against robbing, killing etc. IMO a little sign won't stop them. If I see a sign I take my money elsewhere.

 

[otisrush]

Thanks. I was aware of the toddler story. I wasn't aware of the LEO scenario.

They're such extreme corner cases - at least the ones we've heard of. Those stories are an order of magnitude smaller than "mass shootings", which in turn is multiple orders of magnitude smaller than gun murders, which THEN in turn is less than half of people killed by second hand smoke.

So the way I see it:
People killed accidentally by people carrying: < 20 annually?
People killed by "mass shootings": ~200 annually?
People killed by gun-related murder: ~13,000 annually (this is factual)
People killed by guns: ~31,000 annually (This is factual. The different between the two are gun based suicide.)
People killed in car accidents: ~33,000 (This is factual *I think*.)
People killed by 2nd hand smoke: ~55,000 (factual)
People killed by cigarettes: ~430,000 (factual)

I just don't get what gun free zones are intended to accomplish. I know it's easy for us to not understand it - because we see them as not making sense. But they make sense to others - and I don't understand why.

 

[Bill Bates]

Sometimes doing something, even if it makes no sense, just to make it seem like your doing something is what matters to many. I'm guessing some are more concerned with their public image; than reality. Showing they "care" is all that matters.

 

[federali]

One Other Thought

In states that allow retailers to post enforceable "No Guns" signs, I wonder if they feel that by not having the signs could help transfer liability to them for any incident occurring in their premises?

 

[snubbyfan]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozJTenNzUKM[/ame]

 

[Fred_G]

People killed by 2nd hand smoke: ~55,000 (factual)

I question that.

But back to the OP, gun control is done slowly. Not to save lives, or protect people, but to restrict gun use/ownership among those of us who know what the 2A is about.

Think of it this way: How often do you see laws or taxes go away vs how many new laws and taxes we get?

 

[chaparrito]

I was going to post but this thread is on the razor's edge of politics. A couple of posts may have already gone overboard. I'll pass.

 

[otisrush]

I question that.

This link claims 42,000:
Secondhand Smoke Kills 42,000 Nonsmokers a Year in US

A CA EPA study claims the number is 53,000. This box was at the top of my Google search results when I did a search: (This is the first time I've seen the number attributed to 1997 which - I admit - is pretty darn old.)

 

[suckersrus]

Otis, I think you are giving them too much credit, I think they are so stupid they actually think all they have to do is pass a law and everyone will obey it.

 

[Fred_G]

This link claims 42,000:
Secondhand Smoke Kills 42,000 Nonsmokers a Year in US

A CA EPA study claims the number is 53,000. This box was at the top of my Google search results when I did a search: (This is the first time I've seen the number attributed to 1997 which - I admit - is pretty darn old.)

Huh, I found this:

The study found no statistically significant relationship between lung cancer and exposure to passive smoke, however. Only among women who had lived with a smoker for 30 years or more was there a relationship that the researchers described as “borderline statistical significance.”

Study Finds No Link Between Secondhand Smoke And Cancer - Forbes

How do you prove second hand smoke kills? The smoker gets first, second, and hell third hand smoke.

I am a former smoker, not in favor of smoking.

 

[ClayCow]

Theyre ignorant at times people. You guys are too aggresive and need to get angry at other things which matter

 

[wheelgunguy]

I'm not looking for speculation on answering these questions. I'm wondering if anyone here has ever had conversations with folks who support these policies to understand exactly they think will be improved as a result of having them.

I have had conversations with people who believe in gun free zones. When I have asked I have respectfully pointed out that obviously criminals won't pay attention. So what do you hope to accomplish? It is always some form of "I just think it's a good idea". I am yet to hear a logical thought out response.

In my opinion it's about feelings and since thought wasn't involved with their decision it doesn't make any sense.

 

[BC38]

People killed by 2nd hand smoke: ~55,000 (factual)

I question that.

Me too. That sounds more like the number who die from smoking - not from second hand smoke.
But back to the stupidity of gun free zones....

I have had conversations with people who believe in gun free zones. When I have asked I have respectfully pointed out that obviously criminals won't pay attention. So what do you hope to accomplish? It is always some form of "I just think it's a good idea". I am yet to hear a logical thought out response.

In my opinion it's about feelings and since thought wasn't involved with their decision it doesn't make any sense.

You hit the nail on the head. Emotion driven (vs. logic driven) people determined to DO SOMETHING - even if it is the WRONG thing or even the COUNTERPRODUCTIVE thing.

Since none of us can do anything to fix the criminal element, they FEEL that doing something stupid is better than doing nothing. And that's really what it's all about - how they FEEL.

Unfortunately they are aided and abetted by politicians who want to LOOK like they are doing something that shows they care and VOILA' - you get laws that make certain places into victim-rich "gun free" (for the law abiding) zones.

 

[Fred_G]

Why don't they just make them 'crime free' zones. Problems solved.

 

[otisrush]

Why don't they just make them 'crime free' zones. Problems solved.

"Why don't they just make the whole damn plane out of the stuff they make the black boxes out of?" -- George Carlin (I think - O.R.)

 

[Fred_G]

"Why don't they just make the whole damn plane out of the stuff they make the black boxes out of?" -- George Carlin (I think - O.R.)

I like how you think. We can solve crime and make planes perfectly safe, with a few signs and some manufacturing changes.

 

[ACP230]

They work.
Just like closing your eyes tight keeps people from seeing you.