Performance Center 3566 Customizations

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TriggerHappy1

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(Thanks to those of you who replied to my post about 3566 magazines.)

I have a deposit on a couple 3566's. The 3.5 inch one looks like a keeper, but the 5 inch one has some weird customizations. See attached. Note what looks like a thumb rest and the trimmed grip. Also note the unusual sideplate configuration (the part that catches the slidestop.) What do you make of these customizations? Do they look like Performance Center or a hack job done by a former owner? Thanks.
 

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I wouldn't use the term hack job, the parts look clean and the altered grip are a dime a dozen. Likely that only the original owner that solicited the work has your answer but in the one simple picture (that only offers a glimpse) I would say that the three altered parts are all replaceable AND easy to source too.

The PC was doing full customs before the 3566 Limited was released and it's quite possible that they did this work.

The original single sided hammer block safety that is missing would be the most difficult part to find and replace to return the pistol to stock. If the work was done by a true professional, I think it's possible that the "thumb rest" we see is actually a down-to-fire safety, though I would imagine that to be a long shot.
 
Buy 'em both, and then send the 3566 Limited to Forum member BMCM, a talented gunsmith very familiar with S&W Third Generation pistols, who I am positive can return that wonderful, rare gem to the stock configuration it deserves to have. He will take exquisite care of your gun, as if it were his own.

I would've fainted if I'd come across both those pistols lying on a table next to each other for sale. Maybe you know it already, but you were extraordinarily fortunate to find those. Well done!

EDITED TO ADD: Since it now appears (see later posts) that this gun might be a very rare competition pistol it its current configuration, I agree with those posters (including BMCM) that you should get that gun lettered the way it is now, before making any adjustments to return it to what "stock" 3566 Limited guns had.
 
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I also believe BMCM is a great choice for the work but I'm not in full agreement that the work should be done. I feel like I don't know near enough about the current condition of the pistol as it sits.

A wonderful shooter grade PC gun may not be more "valuable" on the sales market than a mint version of the same thing, but I can tell you that actually finding one to purchase and shoot and enjoy is far more rare than just running out and dropping three grand to get a mint, nearly NIB one that most of us will only handle with white gloves.

I'm blessed to have both ends of the spectrum in S&W PC guns. I've got a dead mint one that I love for pride of ownership, but all the others are varying grades of "shooter" and boy do I love shooting them!
 
Thank you all. Was kind of in a hurry when I took that photo, and didn't inspect the 3566's in great detail. Just put down a deposit and had to run. I'll go back and pay for the guns, take more photos, and send to BMCM for his assessment. I might come back here and ask your assessment of the value of these guns. It seems to vary widely depending on condition.
 
You can get a pretty good idea of our opinions of the value range by searching some very recent threads. Even using a simple "3566" in the forum's fantastic search engine will give you a couple hours of good reading.
 
Some of the early PC guns made for Team Smith and Wesson had that type thumb safety ,Tom Campbell, and Mike Plaxco and others (if I remember right) shot modified 45s, not sure of the model number as they were all tricked out. The thumb type safety is far better for competition shooting than sweeping up the slide mounted safety. So before you do anything I would check to see if it was made that way by the PC.
 
CALREB said:
Some of the early PC guns made for Team Smith and Wesson had that type thumb safety ,Tom Campbell, and Mike Plaxco and others (if I remember right) shot modified 45s, not sure of the model number as they were all tricked out. The thumb type safety is far better for competition shooting than sweeping up the slide mounted safety. So before you do anything I would check to see if it was made that way by the PC.
Click to expand...

As always, CalReb, you are a great resource of information that otherwise might be lost to us here on the Forum. Thanks so much for throwing in on this!

My first thought was, maybe this is one of the guns used by (and maybe even still owned by?) a member of Team Smith & Wesson. My second thought was, with its serial number in the 300s, maybe not. Third thought was, I wonder if the Team guns came from the series of guns produced by the PC for sale, or if they were specially made (perhaps with PCZ prefixes?) before the production run was ever begun?

Questions, questions. But fascinating information you have provided, and thanks again!
 
Very interesting setup on that long slide gun. I see where a M39 type slide stop button has been installed on the frame for the slide stop plunger to act against.

The standard sideplate assembly has been removed and a manual thumb safety fabricated and fitted. I can't help but wonder what prevents that safety from walking out to the left. It appears to incorporate, and pivot on the hammer pin so perhaps there's a circlip retainer on the starboard side a'la Mxx26 frame decockers. I suppose the sear pin is just floating depending on the grip for retention maybe? The firing pin retainer also seems odd...I would think a retainer that fills the cut out on the port side would have been used such as one from a M3953TSW although perhaps these mods were done before the TSW guns were in production.

In any even I wholeheartedly agree with CALREB...You need to get the backstory on that piece before even considering un-doing any of the mods. It's liable to be much more valuable & rare in it's current state. Were I in your position, I'd certainly have it lettered.

Still, I wouldn't mind having a peek under her petticoats to see how that thumb safety is set up;)

Cheers
Bill
 
I know next to nothing about these guns, but the long slide one seems to have had excellent work done on it. Even if not done at the factory, I'd be hesitant to do anything to it before I got it lettered.

You might have a Unicorn of a 3rd Gen gun on your hands and it would be a shame to undo the work before you knew what it was like before it left the factory and who it was initially shipped to.

To my untrained eye, it looks as if the slide stop and safety lever were placed that way for faster shooting.

That's definitely not a "Bubbafied" gun.
 
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I also think the long slide is a Special gun... I vaguely recall some such experimental competition guns built like that. From the trigger position, I expect it's SA only. Buy it, letter it.

A little different than but possibly a one off.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2jU5cp4WCg[/ame]
 
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Thanks for that excellent video, flagman! Not having been a competition shooter, I hadn't really understood the dynamics of why the 356TSW round and the 3566 Limited and Compact had not caught on, when the quality of all three was superb. All I had ever heard was something about "major power factor." Now, I get it.

And as the video pointed out, the Limited gun is SA only. The Compact is DA/SA.
 
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I really think the longer slide pictured was built for a member of Team S&W. I have a vague recollection of an American Handgunner mag cover? Searches bring up pictures of 3566 with SA trigger, longer slide with conventional S&W Safety position. I think it has Briley barrel bushing as well.
I wonder if the seller knows what he has? The shop tags seem to indicate 356 caliber which would be correct.

edited to correct to "longer slide"
 
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flagman1776 said:
I really think the long slide pictured
Click to expand...
...just so that we don't get a little turned around in the middle of this, if we are referring to the linked picture in the first post of this thread, the 3566 Limited shown has a slide longer than the 3566 compact next to it, but it's a standard 3566 Limited with a 5-inch slide/barrel. This is the standard length for this model, the phenomenal research cataloged by forum member skjos suggests that 427 of these were made.

While it may have a longer slide than the DA/SA .356 TS&W sitting next to it, it isn't a "long slide" per se as we tend to use that term.

The Performance Center PPC-9 pistol that came a bit later has a different finish and slightly different sights, but it is almost exactly the same pistol but with a standard 9x19 chambering.

I must bring up the PPC-9 because the PPC-9 was indeed offered in a true "long slide" version with a longer 6-inch slide and barrel.
 
Sevens said:
...it's a standard 3566 Limited with a 5-inch slide/barrel. This is the standard length for this model, the phenomenal research cataloged by forum member skjos suggests that 427 of these were made.
Click to expand...

Earl Minot at Lew Horton told me a couple weeks ago, when I inquired about mine, that there were (517) Limiteds producted for them, as well as (386) Compacts, for a total of (903) 3566s.

I've seen others repeat that same figure from him too though in a letter someone posted from Roy Jinks he said there were a total of (813) 3566s producted and he could not supply the total of each model at that time. I tend to believe Lew Horton's record keeping over S&W's.

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(I did not document the original posters name of this letter, sorry)
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PS: This factory notice was included in the box with mine.
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Thanks, Blue Dot. I want to LIKE, LIKE, LIKE each of your pages. Great info.

The (longer slider) standard length 5" gun pictured appears to be SN TSW0316 which falls within the Horton SN block but as the Horton documents state not all SN were delivered to them.
The compact gun pictured appears to be SN TSW0279 which falls outside the Horton's SN blocks.
 
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I believe that may have been one of the custom frame mounted thumb safeties that was designed and built by Tom Gordon while he was part of the Performance Center. They were made at the behest of a couple of the Team members- J. Michael Plaxco was one of them that comes to mind. Tom and I have had numerous discussions about that era and the guns that he personally built.
 
TriggerHappy1 said:
(Thanks to those of you who replied to my post about 3566 magazines.)

I have a deposit on a couple 3566's. The 3.5 inch one looks like a keeper, but the 5 inch one has some weird customizations. See attached. Note what looks like a thumb rest and the trimmed grip. Also note the unusual sideplate configuration (the part that catches the slidestop.) What do you make of these customizations? Do they look like Performance Center or a hack job done by a former owner? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Congratulations on a terrific find

The conversion work on the 3566 Limited appears to be well executed (at least from this one photo). I do not think I would call it a hack job just because the factory may not have done it. I agree that a letter is called for on that one

The 3566 family of auto-loaders are all exceptionally crafted firearms. You will be quite pleased once you take possession of them. Many had Performance Center 9MM barrels with them. If your two do not have those barrels included they are available from a fellow Forum member that keeps them in stock from Briley

Let us know when you take possession of them. I am also certain that many posters to this thread also eagerly await some more images of your new acquisitions

flagman1776, the video was fairly good. However it did have some factual errors, both about IPSC and ammunition in general. Most importantly his comments on the development of the 356TSW cartridge.

The 356TSW is not a 9x21 casing that has been stretched by .5MM. The 356TSW was more along the line of the 9x23 Winchester with it's significant difference in strength of the cartridge both in the web as well as the lower case wall.

He also mistakenly mentions that the longer case provides more powder capacity, this is totally inaccurate. Since the projectile is seated to the same COAL as a 9MM Parabellum the best you could have is the same case capacity. In reality, the 356TSW has a slightly smaller powder capacity based on it's beefier construction. However the 356TSW is built to operate at a SAAMI pressure of 50,000 PSI as opposed to the 9MM Parabellum's 35,000 PSI or the 9x21's 33,000 CUP

The video was also wrong about SAAMI being the European standards organization. SAAMI is a US organization, CIP is the European standards counterpart

Earl is treasure in the firearms world. His willingness to contribute to those of us that want to know about our Lew Horton offerings goes way above and beyond what most employees are willing to do these days. Hopefully we all thank him accordingly when he provides a letter or documentation for our collections
 
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@Colt_SAA, thank you very much for your post. Do you know who is the user who might have the Briley 9MM barrels just in case I decide to make the conversion?
 
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Gentlemen, thanks for the education on these pistols! I'm going to take a day off from work on Friday to go visit the four guns that are being held for me: two 3566's, a Shorty Forty, and a Comp 40. Time permitting, I'll field strip them and take some close-ups. I'm eager to report back to this thread.
 
TriggerHappy1 said:
@Colt_SAA, thank you very much for your post. Do you know who is the user who might have the Briley 9MM barrels just in case I decide to make the conversion?
Click to expand...

Not to butt in here, TriggerHappy1, but member s537 has posted here before and provided his contact information. His name is Scott Sullivan, and he's very knowledgeable about the 356TSW guns. I think it was his own initiative to get Briley to make these barrels for the 5" and 3.5" guns fairly recently, and he sells them on Gunbroker. Can't link to live auctions, of course, but you can find them there for seller ss537 (yes, there's an extra "s" in his screen name over there). He also has provided his email and phone number here previously:

"You can get one through me. [email protected] or 425-444-0511. Scott Sullivan"

Hope you don't mind me interjecting, colt_saa.

By the way, TriggerHappy1, colt_saa has a website for 356TSW afficionados that you might find interesting. When he's next along here in the thread, I hope he'll post the link to it for you. :)
 
THX, TriggerHappy1 I did follow the tale of the Comped 40 with much interest.
You see I own a 39-2 with a Barstow barrel in 9x21. I shipped the top end to Barstow.
 
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